| just_harry @ 2004-01-30 20:58:00 |
I went to Hagrid's for tea last week and he said he was working on something, so I thought it was going to be something for Care of Magical Creatures. He finished and he wants me to tell everyone. So here. Er. Sorry. You don't have to actually go to it.
Comments:
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:15 am UTC |
Hagrid clearly doesn't understand what has happened to the poor elves over the centuries! He of all people should understand that house-elves have been WRONGED! WITH A W!
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:18 am UTC |
How could Hagrid do this? Why can't he help some other down-trodden magical creatures?
Harry, are you there??
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:21 am UTC |
Look, I'm sure if we went and paid a visit to Hagrid, we could explain, and then he would see the injustices which have put house-elves into servitude forever! Don't worry, I'm sure the both of us can get through to him.
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:26 am UTC |
I'm putting an Engorgement Charm on some leaflets for him now. I'm sure if he would just look at them, he would realise.
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:28 am UTC |
His web page is not exactly professional, is it? He could definitely stand to get his facts straightened out. I'll write out some corrections for him, too.
| just_harry @ 2004-01-31 11:03 am UTC Re: |
I really don't think Hagrid knows much about webdesign.
(parent)| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:30 am UTC |
Who told him I follow house-elves around with socks?
It wasn't you, was it?
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:33 am UTC |
How can he not want to help house-elves? I just don't understand! Now I really do miss Professor Lupin. He seemed to understand.
Would you help me carry this information out to Hagrid's hut, please, Harry?
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:40 am UTC |
Harry, I can't go alone. He won't listen to me prattling on all by myself.
| missgranger @ 2004-01-31 05:44 am UTC |
Fine, I'll get Ginny to come with me.
You know, I am starting to think this is all a conspiracy of some sort. Why won't anyone look at the facts?
| la_pensee @ 2004-02-02 02:54 pm UTC Re: |
Perhaps your own beliefs are blinding you. This was taken from your own webpage:
"I believe I'll talk to Winky next.
Miss... Dobby is not meaning to be disrespectful, miss... but Winky is not liking you, miss, she is not wanting to talk to you.
But why? I'm only trying to help her.
Winky isn't wanting help, miss! Winky is only wanting to work for Hogwarts. She isn't wanting pay or holidays. She says, 'Winky is a disgraced elf, but Winky is not yet getting paid! Winky is not sunk so low as that! Winky is properly ashamed of being freed! You is ought to be ashamed of yourself, Dobby! Oh the shame, the shame!'
If she still feels that way, perhaps it's best I leave her alone, then..."
The facts are that the majority of House Elves feel the way Winky does and not Dobby. Many House Elves are actually quite horrified - if not outrightly offended - by the offer of payment for work. "Freedom" as you put it is something shameful to them. They feel disgraced. It can be a very traumatic situation for them. While I don't necessarily agree with physical or emotional abuse of House Elves, I personally think you ought to respect their views, beliefs, and culture instead of forcing your own onto them.
| missgranger @ 2004-02-02 06:09 pm UTC Re: |
Pansy, I think it is clear that it isn't my goal to run about traumatising house-elves by threatening freedom on them. My point is this: regardless of how house-elves have been bred by wizarding kind to feel about their situation, it is wrong. No creature should be the slave of another. House-elves have essentially been brainwashed into enslavement; wizards have made them the way they are now, and that is wrong. I fully realise how most house-elves feel about freedom - I don't need to be told. However, their compliance does not mean that this is how things are supposed to be, and that the destiny of house-elves is to quietly and loyally exist being slaves, as individuals not allowed to have their own lives or interests beyond what we have forced them to accept as their lot in life. I do not believe that any creature with such powerful magic is supposed to use that magic to make our beds and clean our messes for us, especially when wizards can do that sort of thing for themselves with a wave of their wands. It simply makes no sense to me, and frankly, I am astounded that you cannot see the bigger picture. I appreciate your apparent concern for house-elves, but you have not said anything new to me, and certainly nothing that is going to convince me I am mistaken.
(parent)| la_pensee @ 2004-02-02 11:01 pm UTC |
Darling, I do see the bigger pictures, just perhaps not in the way you do. I hardly expect to convince you of my own beliefs, but in my view, I don't feel it morally wrong to allow a creature such as a House Elf to do something that makes them proud, fulfilled, and happy to do. Do you also consider owls enslaved? They're occassionally put in cages, and they're often used to deliver mail. Are you saying we should free them as well, because certainly we could deliver our own mail, could we not?
I am not saying that House Elves are unintelligent beasts (but then I wouldn't call an owl unintelligent either). But these aren't purely master and slave, or owner and owned. They are often symbiotic and are mutually beneficial than you depict. We have responsibilities towards one another. We allow them to live in our homes, etc. and they in return do some menial tasks. I think you underestimate the relationship between House Elves and the persons they are bound to.
| missgranger @ 2004-02-03 08:24 am UTC Re: |
Well, darling, I do not think it is as simple as, "We allow them to live in our homes, and in return they do some menial tasks." Not at all. And, as much as I enjoy a debate, I can see that nothing will come of this exchange but frustration - on my part, at least, and why bother, when I have S.P.E.W. leaflets to send out? Good day.
(parent)| potterstinks @ 2004-02-03 12:28 pm UTC Re: |
Oh, why give up now? You've made so many good points in this comment that I'm certain Pansy is absolutely stumped.
(parent)| potterstinks @ 2004-02-03 02:12 pm UTC Re: |
Pardon? Are you trying to brainwash me into enslavement? I see you're trying to tell me what to do, but as you know, that sort of injustice could place me in servitude forever.
(parent)