sistermagpie @ April 28 2003, 19:20:55 UTC

Well, technically Seamus did out him but only because Draco had already set things in motion. Draco posted a fake outing but nobody believed him. Technically the school still thought Harry was straight. Unfortunately, this was in a worse because his defenders were all acting like it was a bad thing that he could be gay. Seamus went to Harry and confirmed he was gay. We don't know whether Harry gave the okay for Seamus to confirm it on the journal but he may have.

It was Seamus' word that everyone believed (although Seamus sent Ron to Harry personally). Draco is responsible for what happened overall, but if you really want to keep the way events went down Seamus ends up playing a role. It's important, imo, not because Seamus is guilty of doing something bad in saying what he did, but because the situation with Draco changed after Seamus did that. Also if you're trying to figure out what the hell ps's problem is his version of events after the party seem important. Remember he ignored Harry for weeks over this and apparently made himself sick over it--and this was all when he thought Harry had only borne a resemblance to a boy making a pass at him!

I do agree that Harry would want to be left alone--although I think he appreciates his friends around him. My guess is Harry would want to spend time by himself or with the Trio, his godparents, his good friends. He'd like knowing they were there even if he went into the other room for a while or went for a walk. I don't think he likes any of the major dramatics on the journals: the howler, the updates about his well-being from Ron etc.

I think the reason a lot of us are concentrating on Draco is that j_h is all conjecture at the moment. We don't know how badly this hurt him. His actions with the duel make it clear he's still just_harry but his actions there are understandable. Interesting to wonder if he considered Draco might be there. I have a feeling he wouldn't let himself think about it because Lupin was in trouble. (Go Harry!)

fourscore @ April 28 2003, 19:57:33 UTC

Well, I was thinking more in the terms of the long run, not just the immediate comments. If Seamus had only posted for Ron to go see Hermione and Harry right away, Ron's post still would have come, and I think that would have been confirmation too. I think Seamus, if anything, just confirmed it - Ron of course would never believe Draco, and wouldn't even believe Seamus. He'd only believe Harry. So we know Harry didn't deny it at all. So I think that in the longrun, when Harry didn't deny it, Draco's intent still would have been the one to out Harry.

And, I really am not opposed to everyone thinking about Draco! :) I was just thinking about Harry. I've thought about Draco a lot too! It's Harry that I want to know more of because he's so silent. Draco is silent too, but we at least get the impression that he's - well for lack of a better word - snapped.

I definately agree that Harry appreciates it, which I think is probably part of Harry's problem. He might want to be alone, and feels guilty about it because Ron has been so great. But Ron is even watching him sleep! I just love Ron, I truly do. But I could see Harry cringing at it a little, no matter how much he loves them.

sistermagpie @ April 28 2003, 20:12:16 UTC

Oh, I didn't think you didn't want people thinking about Draco--I've been really happy to get to talk about Harry tonight! I totally agree with him being so grateful for the attention so feeling badly about wanting to withdraw. He can't really be sure they'll be there when he comes back.:-(

In the longrun I think Draco will always get all the blame for this situation--for good reason. I guess the reason I always want to note Seamus too is just that it seems like you need to know someone is gay to be the one to out them, rather than just accuse them of being gay. It's possible, after all, that Harry might have been straight. It that was the case Draco would have just started a rumor and not outed him. But in terms of who outed Harry in the general sense I'd definitely say Draco.

Anonymous @ April 28 2003, 20:32:10 UTC

Well, by that argument, I would have to say that Harry outed himself. Seamus comes back after being gone half an hour, and then tells Ron to go find Harry, and exactly where Harry is. Obviously, Seamus has been to see Harry.

I honestly can't imagine Harry denying the truth, and I think it does great disservice to Seamus to suggest that he would spill information about Harry without permission. Seamus is one of the most consistently cool, consistently loyal characters in NA. And there is no reason to believe that he and Harry are anything but good friends. All that time when Draco ignored Harry, and Ron hated Harry, and even Hermione was throwing quills at him, who stuck by him? Seamus. Whenever Harry mentioned where he had been and who he had been there with, it was always Seamus. Flying, or playing Exploding Snap, or whatever.

Anyway. What I was getting at. I imagine that Seamus would not have posted anything at all without Harry's permission. We forget that these journals don't show everything that is happening, especially on nights where they show so much. And Ron went to talk to Harry, and came back saying almost the same things. I imagine that Harry thought that the secret was out, that there was no point in denying it. Draco told the truth. Now everyone knows.

I think you posted on a different thread -- I didn't read the whole thing, but I think I remember you saying that Harry was acting as if he somehow deserved what Draco had done. I agree with this assessment, and looking at the character in that light, I bet he just acceoted it, admitted it, and never gave a thought to hiding. I can't think that anything that Seamus said was said without Harry's blessing.

sistermagpie @ April 28 2003, 20:51:07 UTC

I assumed that Seamus went to Harry and Harry did give Seamus permission to tell Malfoy that. Seamus made the actual announcement (and his phrasing did make it clear to me that it was supposed to be An Announcement to anyone who was listening) but I don't think he did it without Harry's knowledge. I just don't want to say for sure he did because we didn't get that scene in writing.

Anonymous @ April 28 2003, 21:33:57 UTC

Oh, I get that. It makes sense. I was just surprised that anyone would assume that Seamus had betrayed Harry, or used him for Seamus's own ends, or even disregarded his feelings, when we've never been given any reason to expect that from him.

Anonymous @ April 28 2003, 19:23:04 UTC

Well, I think Draco outed Harry too. By the time Seamus confirmed it, the damage was already done. Seamus didn't do anything wrong. He was amazing that night. <333 Seamus

I love Harry too. He will make it. He's strong that way. :)

Anonymous @ April 28 2003, 20:51:36 UTC Outing or no...

It's hard to imagine a sequence of events after Draco's post (considering Harry's personality) where it *wouldn't* have come out that Harry was gay. Seamus or no.

It seems most likely that Draco didn't realize he'd actually hit pay dirt. Nope, he just wanted to *hurt* Harry. He just wanted to publicly attack him viciously. He thought he was using twisted lies, but he actually stumbled onto a twisted version of the truth.

Whether he technically outed Harry or no, doesn't make his intent any less malicious or cruel.

sistermagpie @ April 29 2003, 07:16:06 UTC Re: Outing or no...

Yes--that's the real issue here. Had Harry not been gay he'd have hurt him in a different way (one that was less personal and painful, perhaps) but the intention was the same.