psychobarfly @ May 14 2003, 02:28:17 UTC

potterstinks and just_harry project(ing) . . . oh, the possibilities.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:33:08 UTC

Is that an observatory in your pocket? Or are you just glad to see me?

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 02:36:37 UTC

lmao. I'm just happy to see them talking again, without any of the extreme tension you might expect if they hadn't had any resolution. Although I suppose Harry could just be taking his cue from Draco's snarky conversation opener . . .

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:44:19 UTC

I like that so far, at least, Harry isn't letting Draco off the hook. He could so easily have decided to be hurt and stop talking. But he's actually pushing Draco to take him up on the invitation.

And before, this might have seemed pathetic. But now Draco has seen how tough Harry can be with Lucius . . .

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 02:59:55 UTC

Harry's posts are ambiguous when I try to interpret them, but don't they seem a little sarcastic? They *could* be read as heart-breakingly pathetic, but when he broke out "You're so much help! I'm glad we're working on this together." That has to be sarcasm.

I'm still amazed Harry's not more bitter toward Draco though. He's just about as friendly as humanly conceivable after the events that have occurred.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:09:07 UTC

He wants him. And he's making a play from strength, it seems.

sistermagpie @ May 14 2003, 16:07:40 UTC

Yes, he's totally being sarcastic. Go j_h!

It seems like they must have had some kind of meeting (accidental, presumably) before this. I mean...I have always thought that Harry understood something about ps's outing post that nobody else did, but still I think he'd demand some kind of apology or at least make sure it wouldn't happen again before he started being civil to him. I trust that j_h knows what he's doing here, and what he's doing can't be that he's just putting up with anything ps dishes out because he wants to be with him.

Draco's obviously dropped his original line of attack on homosexuality, hasn't he? In his outing post he was all, "What if he had gotten his wand?" and now he's agreeing to meet Harry in an empty house? Doesn't it seem like he must have gotten some new understanding of what's going on with Harry? Arrrgh! What's going on with these two??

Even Draco going to Colin's meeting...there's a real knowingness in Harry's responses about it. Ron, bless him, actually steps in to remind Draco that Colin hates him but I think Harry knows Draco knows that. His reference to Colin's song was a little dig--Draco's own response to it, remember, was that Colin should let Draco stick to writing the songs. I really hope that Draco's planning something devious for this meeting. And I hope M.B. is joining him. She doesn't hate Harry, but I think she knows it's funny.

Love Draco's confrontation of Ron about the stalking. He'll go to the meeting and file his nails while bragging he's taller than a gnome. Yeah, ps was really staying away from those livejournals all that time, huh!

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:38:20 UTC

LOL.

Now he's said no to Dogear Wryde, though. Argh, Draco, just, argh!

I was *so* about to go to bed....

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:40:41 UTC

*sigh* Me too. But it's kind of a trip to watch this unfold, when everybody else is going to just read about it after the fact.

5:40 am. Aaargh.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:45:08 UTC Re:

I'll do my own myself, too.

Mm, some unresolved sexual tension, there, Harry? Freudian slip, or typo? :D :D

Yeah, I have got to convionce myself that being up to watch it unfold is NOT necessary. I keep waiting for them to just make a decision, and then I'll be done... gah. 10 more minutes, though, max. :D

Amaralen, you still up too? we can all guilt each other :D

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:45:55 UTC

nevermind. it's not got any sexual subtext really at all. this is what i get for staying up so late.

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 02:49:26 UTC

I'm always up, I don't sleep any more *g*

And yeah, I didn't see any subtext there. I *do* like the way Harry's not backing off at all though.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:54:49 UTC

i like the newer, more assertive harry, too. i was impressed by his taking a stand with lucius, and to be honest impressed even back when he refused to let the outing get him to go on the offensive. he's been very much more self-assured, lately, than he usually is. i wonder if it stems back from around when he came out to Sirius... I dunno. Even the boldness of drunk! harry when he was going to kiss draco, back when... It jsut seems that over the year-ish of NA, he's grown more confident. yay. :D

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:49:55 UTC

No subtext, maybe. But Harry is breaking my heart, here.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:51:26 UTC Re:

I knowww.

There still seems to be hope for them doing the project together, though, and apart from the other students, too.

I mean, how can the tower really be *full* anyway? Are there telescope timeslots?

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 02:52:56 UTC

I suppose it's possible that it was full. But it's much nicer to recall that Harry hadn't seemed to think it was necessary to check, so it's not like he was expecting a crowd . . .

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:58:22 UTC

Interesting point. I wonder if Draco was planning to spring the idea of Hagrid's hut, and got sort of overwhelmed by the counteroffer of Dogear.

The power dynamic is shifting in the last couple entries. Harry's batting him around like a cat with a mouse. Go Harry!

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 03:01:09 UTC

Yeah- and Draco's completely contradicted himself over the course of about 3 comments. Looks like it will end up being Dogear . . .

*cheers Harry on*

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 02:58:53 UTC

augh, to know what truly goes on in draco's head.

from this current standpoint, there are just so many equally plausible and legitimate readings to his reactions to and general behavior towards harry... just.......

oh, please let him have secretly, even if entirely unconsciously, really wanted them to have to go off somewhere else and not have actually just checked and seen that the tower was full...

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 02:59:55 UTC

He caves!!

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:01:03 UTC

And Harry presses the advantage further!

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:10:02 UTC

Good on you Harry, for making him *say* it.

I have the feeling this bodes well for their future romance, too. Harry's demonstrating that he's not going to let Draco walk all over him, nor is he going to let Draco get away with being childish and petulant over stupid things. Oh, Harry, you are the perfect boy for this role in Draco's life. Oh, Draco, do hurry up and bloody *see* it!

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:11:49 UTC

When?

He's relentless.

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 03:14:05 UTC

And Draco's going to meet him after Colin's meeting. This could be interesting . . .

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:15:21 UTC

But he's using the "cutting wit" icon. I don't think he takes Colin terribly seriously . . .

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 03:16:54 UTC

Does anyone take Colin seriously? Draco might be going for any number of reasons, but I think it's probably to amuse himself at the expense of Colin's scary obsessions.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:17:17 UTC

See if you can get him to write a song for me, too.

*dies* *dies* *dies*

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:22:12 UTC

I am dying right along with you!

I *love* that Harry is letting his inner snark out with Draco. That he's meeting Draco on his own playing field, and showing him that two can play the sarcasm game. And that he's bloody good at it too. And you *know* Draco has to be enjoying it as much as Harry is, even if he *isn't* actively consciously crushing in any way.

A worthy adversary...

Oh, NA, how I love you infinitely.

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 03:22:39 UTC

*hearts JH's easygoing sense of humor*

I love how JH never takes himself too seriously. Unlike others who shall remain nameless.

*cough*potterstinks*cough*

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:30:43 UTC "Now, Now" !! <3 <3 <3

DUDE< Draco's response.

There is SO fondness. FONDNESS

*does a happy dance*

I mean, "Now, Now" is something you say when you're thinking of ruffling someone's hair. Affectionate.

Reminds me of "You're impossible"

*adores*

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:36:44 UTC Re: "Now, Now" !! <3 <3 <3

Well, you wouldn't be the one writing the song, would you?

The first post from Harry that seems weak and distracted . . . and it coincides with Ron's appearance. Boo, clueless Ron!

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:57:36 UTC Ron jumping in

argh, i replied to this, and i guess lj ate it

i essentially said, yeah, i think ron's appearance is going to spell the end to the honest discussion between h and d. they're never entirely as free, even in snark, when other people are butting in. it's as if they almost forget that other people will be watching the journals later when they reply to just each other. (*sigh* ah, love...) Not that I think they truly do *forget*, but just that they enjoy the banter and the friendly snark, and then other people jumping in reminds them that they're not really alone.

i'm kinda happy ron jumped in... cos now I can go to bed happy. And dream of what just *might* happen when the boys get together for their project tonight. It's only, oh, two hours after i thought i was going to sleep... :D :D

sweet H/D dreams to you all.
And, B_D, nice to see you again :D. I'm so happy you're delurking more.
Cheers to Amalen, as well.
*hugs*

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 04:08:17 UTC Draco jealous??? (subconsciously) / power dynamics

... except i have one more thing to say...

See how as soon as Harry acknowledges Ron, Draco asks them both to leave?

See how as soon as he's not the only one Harry's paying attention to, Draco busts out his "I've got a shapely girlfriend" icon? The "Hey, *I* already have someone, I am not in the least bit threatened by the fact that you two are best friends and that Harry might care about Ron as much as he cares about me, even if I'm the one he has a crush on. The, hey, Harry, remember that even though we have something people might look on as kind of like a date (erica: oh, squee), tonight, doesn't mean it's all going to be easy for you icon.

I mean, Draco could have used the clear and open crush Harry has on him as a power play. But Harry hasn't let him, and Draco might be just a tad... jealous? That just because he's gained power over Harry as the object of desire and a place in Harry's heart, doesn't mean that he actually *does* have much *control* over Harry.

Hmmmm.

Ok, *now* to bed.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 04:37:39 UTC Re: Draco jealous??? (subconsciously) / power dynamics

Yeah, I think both of your points are very true, that Ron coming in sort of ruined the moment, ruined the unselfconsciousness, but also that Draco feels intimidated by the fact of their friendship, maybe put in his place a bit by those Chudley Cannon icons. Maybe even jealous.

I have to say, I love the way Ron's reactions are evolving here, that he's catching himself, even if it's a bit late, and realizes that he may be spoiling the mood a little. He stops screaming at Draco, offers to sort of vanish so they can keep talking. And it's even more significant, maybe, that Draco seems to be making an effort with Ron. I love his "Of course I'm going, I get to be Czar" post, though he gets ticked off when Ron doesn't get it. And that he finally explains himself at length to Ron even though it sort of spoils the irony -- that's a big deal for him, I think.

Lots to chew on. I will suffer for staying up into full sunlight. But it was worth it. Nice to see you!

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:04:29 UTC

LOL, "What do you mean, fine?"

That's a question we'd *all* love an answer to... And not just about tonight, either.


Ah, it's so sweet when Draco caves. And now if anyone calls him on it, he can legitimately protest that Potter pushed him into doing it, he really saw no point in continuing to argue....

Oh, yay.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 03:07:54 UTC

And he is "beautifully enraged" about it.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:16:38 UTC

And I swear, this icon of Harry's is so... eager and hopeful in general.

"When?"

Oh, it's just so damn *beautiful*

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 03:08:22 UTC

I mean 'fine.' If I meant something else, I'd use a different word.

He does have a point . . . but the point is *why* is he fine all of a sudden *g*

cirakaite @ May 14 2003, 03:02:31 UTC

I may have no idea what's going on in Draco's head, but *squee* for Harry!

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 02:54:13 UTC

With the amount of necking couples up in the Astronomey tower then it's probably very likley that its still filled.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:07:00 UTC

i was kinda picturing that it'd be bunches of pairs at telescopes, and nobody'd have the privacy for conversing much, or necking at all

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 03:08:58 UTC Re:

You've obviously never read over the top Harry Potter romance fics have you? ;)

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:14:57 UTC

:D more than my share.

But given that the entire year has to work on this project, I'd imagine the tower wouldn't have much privacy. I'm now wondering if they use or need telescopes at all, but it may be that the tower observatory is simply not all that large. Still, I think most fics set things on a night when nobody else has assingments up there, or past curfew hours when the assignments ought to have been completed. This is supposed to take place, I am assuming, within curfew hours, and so there'd be everyone from the class trying to fit in their observations in the few hours between dinnertime and 11 pm.

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 03:17:13 UTC Re:

How doe's time work in Nocturne Alley any way? I mean over where I am it's only eight at night but some people in the states are saying it's five a.m.
It makes me wonder what time it is in the NA world.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:23:05 UTC Re:

I think we can assume it's UK time, mid-morning.

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 03:24:23 UTC Re:

Ah hah! well a lot of things are starting to make much more sense now.

serpensortia @ May 14 2003, 03:28:46 UTC

If it's UK time, then these guys must do a hell of alot of posting in the smaller hours of the morning - I'm in the UK and tend to sleep through most things going on.

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 03:30:24 UTC

Nope. NA time is just NA time. It's about 08.30 am, as Draco's post was at 07.30.

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 02:40:51 UTC

* Puts on her "I'm at my first live comment thread" t shirt and waits.

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:03:41 UTC

you too? cool! *joins you*

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:04:35 UTC Re:

Eh it looks like this ones starting to rap up , why oh why could'nt I have been here for the outing of Harry?

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:07:08 UTC

i knooow. ;_; and Snape procliaming Neville the Dark Lord, and (the list goes on and on...)

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:08:37 UTC Re:

Damn me being Australian , damn it all to hades!
I find the whole Draco saying " I said fine , if I meant something else I would have used a different word" comment very very interesting.
Is he poking fun at all the people who freaked out at the "fine" post a few days ago?

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:13:42 UTC

it's not just being Australian, I'm in Florida and on a night shift anf they always manage to ppost while i'm asleep. it's an evil plot!

Ron's posted replying to Harry and Draco a bit more. ^^

and i'm not sure... i think he'd go to them and make fun of them, or make sure it was a school-journal post, if he were... (bites lip trying to figure out PS)

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:15:40 UTC Re:

Oh I just saw the whole Ron/Harry/Draco thing. It's so bloody hilerious and adorable. I swear to Merlin if I did'nt know better I would think there was something going on.

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:18:41 UTC

that's it! it all makes sense now!

this is what happened: Draco outed Harry 'cause he wouldn't share Ron!

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:19:54 UTC Re:

but who in there right mind would want RON?

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:22:22 UTC

but, see, PS tried to reject Harry. clearly, he is not in his right mind anyway, so... :p

darn it. another perfectly good conspiracy destroyed by logic!

(and i like Ron, just not in the context of NA!)

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:24:31 UTC Re:

( I quite like canon ron to , but seeing NA Ron's slightly bewildered icon is enough to get any girl out of the mood)

I swear to god when people start falling out of their beds in a couple of hours this community is going to be swarming with conspiracy theories for me to destroy with logic!

spoke @ May 14 2003, 04:30:42 UTC

(sniffs) but i will miss them when i have to go to bed... wah!

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 01:32:58 UTC Re:

My brother kicked me off the computer before , hence my hasty depature. Sorry about that.

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:16:08 UTC

n/p, happens to me too. ^^

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:17:37 UTC Re:

I LOVE YOUR ICON TO PEICES!!!!

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:20:14 UTC

isn't it cool, though? shusu made a batch of them, they're in a post on NrAged. ^^ had to use this one.

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:21:30 UTC Re:

I really want one :(

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:24:44 UTC

go to the post then, silly! she just makes these things every so often, and hands them out as long as no takes credit. ^^

this last time she referred to herself as an anoymous source of the 'icon scourge' ^_^

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:25:46 UTC Re:

Alright I'm on my way over there! I also need to read NA for today.

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:27:01 UTC

YES. You do. Hurry. ^___^

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:28:02 UTC Re:

What the heck is going on with Neville ? Memory blocks?

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:33:56 UTC

No one seems to know yet! (whimpers) The only one who's responded is Snape, and he of course thinks it an evil plot.

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:34:49 UTC Re:

Well no duh , oh goody I've found some more Draco/Ron interaction I must have missed last night!

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:36:57 UTC

hee! i know, they just kept going!

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:38:30 UTC Re:

I have replied to this thread nearly thirty times , how bout you?

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:41:13 UTC

lol! i was just about to say, 'look, we're a self-perpetuating comment thread!'

it's like one of those perpetual motion devices. gah! maybe we should stop that?

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:42:36 UTC Re:

*giggles* I just remembered an episode of the simpsons where Lisa built one of those and Homer yelled " Lisa in this house we obey the laws of thermo dynamics!"

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:48:28 UTC

I remember that one!

Then my Dad said it was possible anyway, that someone had built one. He couldn't tell me where it was, though. >:( I want proof!

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:50:22 UTC Re:

Perhaps it was the one lisa built 0.o

spoke @ May 15 2003, 02:53:30 UTC

Perhaps it was. I worry about him sometimes, but then I remember that everyone in my family seems a little bit off, so I stop worrying. ^^

(secretly waves tiny I <3 evil!Neville flag)

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 03:28:03 UTC Re:

No not evil Neville!
*sets flag on fire*

hezzabeth @ May 15 2003, 02:43:19 UTC Re:

What the heck is going on with Neville ? Memory blocks?

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 04:20:16 UTC

Is he poking fun at all the people who freaked out at the "fine" post a few days ago?

Who? The ones that refused to believe it? ;)

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:21:17 UTC Re:

Yep thats what I'm getting at , sorry but the whole " I mean it when I say fine" thing really struck a chord with me.

dancingrain @ May 14 2003, 03:00:42 UTC

You know when you said it!

Hmm... on one of their little "no we're not friends at all, he's my caddy" type outings, earlier, maybe?

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 03:01:16 UTC FINALLY!

Never mind. Fine.

Damn, it's like pulling teeth... ;)

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 03:05:38 UTC Re: FINALLY!

What do you mean, fine?

JH's certainly not making it any easier on PS.

About bloody time, I say!

tabiji @ May 14 2003, 03:08:55 UTC Re: FINALLY!

Augh. I'm afraid to look...don't want to get my hopes up!

(BTW, when the hell do these people sleep?)

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 03:15:09 UTC Re: FINALLY!

BTW, when the hell do these people sleep?

Heck if I know. It's already after 3:00am in Seattle, and if not for this ongoing saga unfolding I'd have crashed an hour ago! ;)

I mean 'fine.' If I meant something else, I'd use a different word.

Hmmm, a throwback to PS’ previous shift in LJ mood - and possibly the suspicions that uncharacteristic shift stirred among classmates and Nraged members alike..?

*ponders*

tabiji @ May 14 2003, 03:19:26 UTC Re: FINALLY!

Interesting that Draco just had a pretty lengthy conversation w/ Harry but still hasn't responded to Narcissa.

notapipe @ May 14 2003, 15:27:29 UTC Re: FINALLY!

Draco really laid the smackdown on subtext.

hezzabeth @ May 14 2003, 04:30:59 UTC

and now the Ron's getting in on the act...

moonlitpages @ May 14 2003, 10:06:24 UTC

Ah damn it. I turn in early for once, and look what happens. Of course, if I hadn't, I'd probably never have gone to bed *laughs*. I'd just like to express my undying love for Professor Sinistra. Genius, that woman. ;-)

vermithrax @ May 14 2003, 10:41:12 UTC Hmmm...

Just a thought...will Narcissa be at Dogear Wryde while Draco is? This could be an opportunity for them to actually talk (if Draco will allow it). Could Harry be trying to orchestrate a possible reconcilation between Draco and his mother by suggesting they use his house (aside from having a convenient tower to do their project)?

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 15:44:16 UTC Curious and curiouser...

Okay, after rereading through the entirety of Harry/Draco/Ron posts, I must relay an astounding observation - Draco seems to be sniping at Harry and Ron in much the same way he would Pansy and Millicent. Even with Ron, there's a certain humor or playfulness that accompanies his usually cutting sarcasm - as if they all share a secret or something.

And that's not even half as astounding as the manner in which Ron is regarding Draco. Why would Ron press Harry to persuade Draco not to go to the meeting? Why would he believe that Harry had the power to do so in the first place? What's happened in the last few weeks that's made Ron adopt this know-it-all attitude towards Draco and his 'relationship' with Harry?

I'm still not making the necessary connections here. By the night of the truth serum - the day following Harry's split lip and rumored use of locking spells - when questioned on his view of Draco Malfoy, Ron stated that he thought he was sometimes honest and added that he assumed there must be something good about him for Harry to like him. Reasonable enough in and of itself. Then soon after, Draco sent Harry his father's message which was admittedly rather puzzling, especially when considering his appalling actions toward Harry only a few weeks back. This act combined with whatever possibly occurred around the time Draco happened to be singing and was said to be 'fine' would understandably make one wonder if there was more to Draco than met the eye. But at the same time, I wouldn't think anything less than out-and-out groveling and/or profuse apologizing would allow Harry and Ron to not only forgive so easily, but banter in such a friendly, self-assured manner today.

There’s so much left unsaid, so much subjectivity masks that it’s near difficult to connect the dots. Or it is for me, anyway. ;)

*ponders some more*

luleh @ May 14 2003, 16:26:58 UTC

Sigh.

Damn my job for not having any net!

But, SQUEE!

That was fabulous!

I do love how Ron came in and wasn't at all hostile at first, and even when he did get in his Ragin' Ron mode, it seemed to stem more from Colin's little club.

sistermagpie @ May 14 2003, 17:34:56 UTC

I think Ron is just not quite understanding j_h and ps's conversation. That is...Ron is naturally very forthright while j_h and ps use a lot of irony and sarcasm, both saying things with straight faces while knowing they mean something else, staring each other down to see which one will crack first etc.

Draco tells Harry he's going to this meeting of Colin's. I can't take anything about H/D for granted now, but it sounds like Draco's teasing there. Harry doesn't bite. He tells Draco, "Sure go to the meeting. Maybe they will make up a song for me too." Ron, of course, thinks Colin should be dealt with by open condemnation. He's decided, as a friend, to get on board the H/D because it's what Harry wants and shown his commitment by stalking Draco etc. Harry didn't want that, of course; this relationship has always been about misdirection. Ron seems to have started seeing Malfoy as Harry's boyfriend ever since Draco's awful post, telling Malfoy he doesn't deserve Harry etc. as if Harry's already Malfoy's. I don't think Ron would need to think Harry had power over Malfoy to encourage him to tell Malfoy not to go to the meeting. He knows Harry can deliver a good threat even if Malfoy doesn't listen.

What I think is kind of funny here is the way both Ron and Draco seem to be testing each other out, seeing what kind of relationship the two of them would have if H/D happened. Now that Ron knows about it he doesn't want to be on the outside again--plus, he's no longer preoccupied with Hermione. So he inserts himself into the conversation, ostensibly to help Harry and show support, probably also seeing himself as a little bodyguard in case Malfoy acts up. But really I think there's a genuine wish to be involved in this relationship somehow, which is also what I think he was doing with the stalking. This actually could be something that caused some interesting conflict later on if H&D get together. Because at this point Ron's intentions are good but I think he may really be trying to make this something he and Harry do together in a strange way...does that make sense?

So I guess I'm saying yes, Malfoy's naturally jealous of Ron but Ron probably has even more reason to be jealous of Malfoy. First because Malfoy is the romance (something that if it worked out and lasted forever would make Draco Harry's real family, like a husband). Second because Malfoy's already gotten used to being jealous of Ron. His place in Harry's life is only moving up. Ron's the one who's going to be learning to share.

darlulu @ May 14 2003, 18:00:32 UTC

Because at this point Ron's intentions are good but I think he may really be trying to make this something he and Harry do together in a strange way...does that make sense?

That totally makes sense! In his most recent, rather well-meaning string of posts, I got the feeling that Ron was speaking *for* and *with* Harry, and trying to make that crystal clear to Draco.

So I guess I'm saying yes, Malfoy's naturally jealous of Ron but Ron probably has even more reason to be jealous of Malfoy. First because Malfoy is the romance (something that if it worked out and lasted forever would make Draco Harry's real family, like a husband). Second because Malfoy's already gotten used to being jealous of Ron. His place in Harry's life is only moving up. Ron's the one who's going to be learning to share.

Interesting thoughts. We've already witnessed the imbalance between Draco and Ron shift as their relationships with Harry were altered respectively - as Ron turned his back on Harry, and Harry sought Draco out. So it would only stand to reason that Ron would now preemptively reclaim his stake on Harry as the obligatory best friend, thereby signaling to Draco that romantic relationship or not, he plans to be a part of Harry's life and refuses to be replaced.

luleh @ May 14 2003, 18:45:53 UTC

I just think his first post in the journal, "Hullo!" is so cute!

I am <3ing Ron to much now. He's such a doll.

As for your post, excellent thoughts! Have nothing to add, am plebey tonight.

black_dog @ May 14 2003, 22:27:29 UTC

The only thing I'd add to this is a sense of the time dimension. This was one of the few threads I got to watch unfold in real time this morning, and it was unbelievably dramatic. And one of the most brilliant things was watching Ron's and Draco's attitude evolve.

Harry and Draco had been fencing with each other in a fascinating way, with Harry gaining confidence and pushing Draco toward a commitment to come to Dogear. Draco's post about Colin's meeting was worrisome, but Harry's reaction ("see if you can get him to write a song for me, too") was a triumph, and Draco's "Now, now," was like a total, affectionate surrender. It was a real moment for them both.

It was precisely at that point that Ron broke in with his denunciation of Draco. Not the "Hullo" post, but the one much lower down and to the left, "You're going to COLIN'S SODDING MEETING!" And you could see Draco stiffen in his response to Ron. It really, really spoiled the moment, and Harry was just completely silent while it played out and started to look like a disaster.

That's when Ron seemed to catch himself, perhaps because Harry wasn't reacting. That's when the "Hullo" post with the almost apologetic appeal of the Chudley Cannons icon happened. I think that Ron must have really understood, quite suddenly, that he was ruining an important conversation for Harry and Draco. Because after that his tone changes, he's more rational and (almost) courteous to Draco, and he offers to leave.

I love the way that Harry, after ignoring Draco's pout about becoming a painter and defusing his sulky comment about both Harry and Ron leaving now, really does make a judgment to step away, not to linger. And lets Ron and Draco work things out by themselves.

The pattern to their exchanges is really interesting. They both make overtures, misunderstand each other, get indignant, but then consciously try to rein themselves in.

For example, Draco tends to start his threads with Ron with the sort of joke he'd use with Harry ("Of course I'm going, I get to be Czar;" "I have badges and I know how to use them.") And Ron, the git, doesn't get it. But not because he's stupid, because by the end of the thread, Ron is really being similarly sharp and funny with Draco ("What, you didn't know [about being left handed]?") I think he's genuinely appreciating for the first time that some of Draco's sharpness is wit, not just nastiness. And it's probably a similar surprise for Draco to see Ron's ability to be funny.

Ron also makes an overture that Draco doesn't understand when he tries to downplay the stalking, and Draco at first confronts him instead of agreeing to paper things over. Ron starts screaming at him, but then mellows out with the very sensible suggestion that Draco "let it go."

It's not the beginning of a beautiful friendship, but it's a really significant effort on both their parts. And I think you're exactly right, that they're understanding that they're going to have to get along, because they're both part of Harry's life now.

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 18:27:12 UTC

Just some things I noticed that I didn't know to have been mentioned...

Is this the right link? (http://www.livejournal.com/users/potterstinks/18809.html?thread=315257#t315257)

Do we know when potterstinks said Hagrid's hut smelled? I'm curious because I don't recall if this is canon to the books, to N_A, or one of the things we don't know that happened between j_h and ps.

Also, in potterstinks' memories (Under, "Why Potter should not have lived") he has: 1. The beginnings of a new sexual era; 2. A fine day for an outing; 3. Astronomy; and 4) before astronomy he has My Glorious Return, but what's that got to do with "Why Potter Should Not Have Lived"? in fact... hmm.. some of the memories in this catagory seem Very Random? Or maybe it's just me?

Sorry if my post seems cut off, because it does to me, as I now have to go before I can fully complete my thought though I'm not quite sure what my thought it, I just thought it was random mentionings.

Hm. Periods might be nice there.

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 18:30:18 UTC

Just some things I noticed that I didn't know to be mentioned....

Is this the right link? (http://www.livejournal.com/users/potterstinks/18809.html?thread=315257#t315257)

Do we know when potterstinks said Hagrid's hut smelled? I only ask because I don't recall if this is canon to the books, to N_A, or one of the things we don't know that happened between j_h and ps.

Also, in potterstinks' memories (Under, "Why Potter should not have lived") he has: 1. The beginnings of a new sexual era; 2. A fine day for an outing; 3. Astronomy; and 4) before astronomy he has My Glorious Return, but what's that got to do with "Why Potter Should Not Have Lived"? in fact... hmm.. some of the memories in this catagory seem Very Random? Or maybe it's just me?

I think I had more, but some how it got all deleted, and I really have to go now, so I really can't correct myself..

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 18:32:16 UTC

Oops... Maybe it wasn't deleted after all... Sorry...

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 18:46:50 UTC Re: Harry's power of forgiveness.

I'm in love with someone who is the same gender as me. If they had told me they were disgusted and later come to me and said that they just didn't know, that they were still figuring things out, I would still have been in love with them. If they had said they were disgusted and could never talk to me again, I would have felt guilty, not angry. For disgusting them, for making them uncomfortable. You can't make yourself stop being in love with someone. I'm obviously not Harry, but. One thing that you can give someone you love is forgiveness. And sometimes that is the best thing you can get.

Anonymous @ May 14 2003, 23:45:37 UTC Re: Harry's power of forgiveness. and "Managing Malfoy"

I'm not sure we should say "love" for Harry's feelings for Draco.

Yes, he's attracted to him physically, and no doubt also to some aspects of his personality, and the potential for love exists (we hope!!) but he doesn't really *know* Draco yet. They simply haven't spent enough time together.

Also, after reading all 81(!) posts, I'm starting to lean toward the idea that it's not quite as dramatic as betrayal and forgiveness etc etc. "Managing" Draco seems to be a matter of ignoring much of the noise he makes with his mouth and trying to figure out the 1 or 2 things he means, then being quite firm about where you stand and not backing down. He seems to fold quite easily when faced with a certain kind of impervious caring firmness. Pansy and M.B. tend to be quite adept at this. It's a bit like how a mother deals with a young child actually... Let the insults roll off your back as inconsequential, and deal with the brat at hand.

(An aside: And this applies to his actual mother in that she is almost never firm with him in a meaningful, consistent way. She tries to show her love by indulging and complementing him. Which is nice, but if that is all she does as his mother, ultimately a bit empty.)

Harry is no doubt holding his own better since he seems to no longer take Draco's insults as seriously... that is, if he ever did. We still have no idea exactly how he felt about the "outing post," although the deletion of his journal implies that he took it hard. But he may feel less need for "forgiveness" if he no longer takes what Draco says greatly to heart.

Still, I don't want this to become "the taming of the shrew-Draco." 1. Draco has to keep some of his fangs and 2.Be nice if Draco himself had a small hand in his own improvement.

Anonymous @ May 15 2003, 00:37:56 UTC About the use of the word "love".

Am not Anon #1 or #2 in this thread. Brand new Anon weighing in.

I've been watching, and I don't know if there is another word for it. If you want to look at Harry as a weak character who will allow himself to be walked all over however Draco pleases, and take it because he's hot for him, well, where am I going with this? Other than to say that I don't think that that's what's going on with Harry. It doesn't fit. I think that if it were just amusement and sexual attraction, Harry would have moved on long ago.

But this has been going on a long time. When NA started over at lj, Harry hated Malfoy. It was a couple of months in when things started to change. Harry's been living with his changed perceptions for about a year now, and in that year, he has come to understand Malfoy, somehow -- he's paid attention, he has exhibited patience, he has shown, more than anything else, that he knows how to listen to him. He can be angry, and frustrated and cold, yes, but always, he listens.

When he posted those comments after the attempted kiss, and when he deleted his journal, he showed that he is somehow vulnerable to Draco, too. That Draco's opinion matters.

I don't know. This all sounds different in my head than it does on paper. What I am trying to say is, you talk about "managing Malfoy". I can't see Harry ever thinking that that's a skill worth developing unless his feelings for Draco ran pretty deep. Harry has better things to do than spend his time catering to every little brat who snipes at him in Potions. It's hard to say what happened to Harry way back when, but whatever it was, its effects seem to be pretty profound. I don't think that calling it love, based on what we have seen from Harry lately, is stretching it too far at all.