ms_potter @ June 28 2003, 19:26:31 UTC

I was going to post, but no one else was, so I felt shy! :D

Anyway every time I see a post like Sirius' I just want to cry, my heart nearly stops.

I don't want to lose him. We've had so little time together... life just isn't fair.

NO IT ISN'T. *cries*

thegirlingreen @ June 28 2003, 19:33:55 UTC

I was going to post, but no one else was, so I felt shy! :D


blah, don't listen to me. all i do is sit around waiting for people to post. well, sometimes i eat and sleep and occasionally frolic, but mostly wait for the posts.

Anyway every time I see a post like Sirius' I just want to cry, my heart nearly stops.


I KNOW. especially since the fifth book came out and now it's canon that they're not going to have time together.... sadness!

altricial @ June 28 2003, 19:34:21 UTC

I know! That entry made me weep.

fourscore @ June 28 2003, 19:32:11 UTC

Well, I think there's a difference between Harry and Hermione. Hermione read all those books that referred to him only as You-Know-Who before she went and in book one Harry even admits he doesn't know anything and doesn't know that he's supposed to be afraid of saying Voldemort.

fourscore @ June 28 2003, 19:34:50 UTC

Oh! Well. I was just really talking about canon but yeah it does apply to NA. Yay!

thegirlingreen @ June 28 2003, 19:35:51 UTC

i agree, but i was intending to include the rest of the muggle-borns too. do they flinch and hesitate to say his name? i'm genuinely curious as to their reactions to saying v's name or hearing v's name ... i don't really know if i'm making too much sense as to what i'm trying to say...

fourscore @ June 28 2003, 19:38:14 UTC

Well, I suppose we don't really know, canonwise anyway. I imagine they might not be as afraid because they didn't see their parents fearing it for ten years. I see what you're saying--that's just the difference I can see for Harry and Hermione, though I was surprised myself that she mustered that much fear. But even Harry in book one starts getting chills every time he hears "You-Know-Who" so I don't know if it would be too hard for the muggle-borns to start being afraid too.

thegirlingreen @ June 28 2003, 19:39:37 UTC

but now i have to log off, so i likely won't be able to explain myself or continue with my thought until tomorrow... so, lalala and L. isn't harry supposed to come back monday?

idlewind @ June 28 2003, 19:35:11 UTC

I've always sorta thought that the saying of you-know-who is a reflection of Neo Pagan traditions. I remember hearing that in Wicca giving an object a name increases its power. I don't know how much that plays in the HP world, though.

tiamet_nox @ June 28 2003, 19:49:22 UTC

I remember hearing that in Wicca giving an object a name increases its power.

I've heard that too. However, the name only holds it's power with infrequent use. Saying the name a lot decreases it's hold. So I can see how that applies to HP. People don't say the name Voldemort, or even Tom Riddle, and that adds to his power by increasing the fear people who don't say it have. Think about it. Are you more afraid of something you can put a name and face to or some unspeakable terror in the dark?

Please excuse my lack of eloquence^-^ Did that make sense?

idlewind @ June 28 2003, 20:06:25 UTC

Hee, that made perfect sense. And while I agree on the one hand, I think that there must be something we as fans don't know about the Name. After all, everyone is willing to say Grindlewald (sp? I'm not completely sure about that one. ^_^). We do know Voldemort killed those who were against him, did he perhaps view the saying of his name as opposition? It seems to me that something like homicide would go a long way to make sure everyone says YouKnowWho.

Still, yeah, it probably would be healthier and less frightening for everyone involved if they all just said Voldemort. Although, I do think Ron's phobia is a little bit cute. :)

*looks up* And hopefully, it'll post this time and will stop telling me error in database.

tiamet_nox @ June 28 2003, 20:56:08 UTC

*looks up* And hopefully, it'll post this time and will stop telling me error in database.

heh. It's telling me tat as well.^-^

I completley agree with you that there is something about the name they're not telling us. It's not as if everytime there's someone who isn't-very-nice *cough* around people start saying YNK. Lupin's point that the Jew's speak Hitlers name falls in here. There is probably something else that made the term YNK stick. (However for all we know it could just be a nick name that started as a joke and stuck^-^)

And Ron's phobia is very cute! fear of spiders and a certain name (Arachnephobia or Arachnophobia- Fear of spiders; Onomatophobia- Fear of hearing a certain word or of names, Nomatophobia- Fear of names. hehehe)

idlewind @ June 28 2003, 21:20:28 UTC

Hee, I like the idea it started as a joke. It might've just been an Onion article, and then just gone horribly, horribly awry.

Hey, I just realized the You Know Who thing is very diva like. I can picture J. Lo wanting to be called You Know Who 'cause she's just *that* special. ^_^

and ooh, onomatophobia. Did not know that one. Who said NA wasn't educational? :)

tiamet_nox @ June 28 2003, 21:42:15 UTC

He he he... I just had this image of YNK the diva! He was wearing shoes like the ones in you icon and a sparkly robe and demanding Perrier. Heh. Which lead me to remembering the fanart picture of Lucius and the Death Eaters (rock band^-^) which leads me to songwriting!Draco which leads to... now see what you've started^-^


An naturally N_A is educational. We're learning about people and social situations not to mention analysis! This is life skills we're talking about here!
This one amused me: Ephebiphobia- Fear of teenagers. heh. "Ahhh!! Run away! It's a 15yr old! They're evil, man. Evil!" ^-^

idlewind @ June 28 2003, 21:57:25 UTC

Oh yeah, Voldemort is totally just a sparkly diva waiting to happen. I can see him now in an interview "I just never felt like a Tom, Oprah. I deserved better than that! That's why I became VOLDEMORT!" *sniffly pause, though his mascara never ever runs* "Damn that muggle father of mine! It's his fault I had a boring name for 17 years, you know. And look, now I'm scarred for life!" Okay, only, you know, it's funnier if you imagined the sparkly robes and the Perrier you mentioned. hehe

And I want to find that rockband fanart picture. If only so I can make up bad song titles because I am secretly verrrry pathetic. hee

tiamet_nox @ June 28 2003, 22:14:15 UTC Re:

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I feel a parody fic coming on. Voldemort: The Early Years, an Oprah exclusive.

And I found the link for you !The original. aaaaand. The debut single!

he he he.. I'm so glad you reminded me of that! It totaly made my night.^-^

delirieuse @ June 28 2003, 21:09:11 UTC

In HPverse, I'd argue that it seems to be the reverse, though: because everyone's afraid of saying Voldemort's name, it's that which gives the name power. Any time Harry or Dumbledore uses the name, everyone around them flinches. The name is like a small piece of Voldemort's power; in order that he have a lesser power/thrall over you, you need to learn to have enough inner strength to say his name - cf Hermione in OOTP.

Think about all the superstitions about letting others know your "true name". Think Holly Black's Tithe. Think Cassie Claire's Draco Sinister, where Narcissa is banned from saying Lucius' name in case she use it against him in a spell.

Following on from this thread, Voldemort is not really his "true name" - that's Tom Riddle. In book five, we see Dumbledore calling him Tom. Clearly Tom is the new Voldemort, when it comes to names.

Even though Voldemort is not his true name, one could follow this through to still being a name of personal power; he's suffused it with so much energy over the last howmanyyears. Think of what Terry Pratchett says in Lords and Ladies (I'm paraphrasing here because I can't find my copy - one of my sisters must have nicked it): Hodgesaargh wasn't his real name, unless you considered a person's real name to be that which he introduced himself as.

tiamet_nox @ June 28 2003, 21:33:12 UTC

because everyone's afraid of saying Voldemort's name, it's that which gives the name power.

That's what I meant, sorry.^-^

In regards to true names and power: think about Harry's name. One only has to utter it and people react. It's not thunder and earthquakes or anything of the sort, but it does make people act differently and treat him differnetly. Likewise, the name Voldemort makes people react, albet more negativly. I think one can arguee that 'Voldemort' has more power then 'Tom' for this reason. I sometimes wonder why he chose to have a pseudonym as a power base rather then his birth name.

Following this, I agree with your point about a person's real name being what they introduce themselves as. (Amusingly enough, I just finished reading that book a few days ago^-^) Voldemort is the name people know him as, thus it is his name.

altricial @ June 28 2003, 19:38:11 UTC

Hey, not to be a Nazi or anything, but could you add a spoiler warning to your post? The comments are very spoilery. :D

thegirlingreen @ June 28 2003, 19:42:32 UTC

did i spoil-warn okay?

altricial @ June 28 2003, 19:43:43 UTC Re:

Yup! Thank you :D

eltie @ June 29 2003, 01:37:15 UTC

<33 I adore your icons, because my version doesn't have the pictures. :D

altricial @ June 29 2003, 06:45:27 UTC Re:

Oh I don't have the pics, I got my friend to scan them for me :D

Anonymous @ June 28 2003, 19:43:32 UTC

Well, Harry may not have known to be afraid of his name, but I still think Harry has the most to fear of Voldemort, so it's important for him to be able to say the name. Even after all that has been done to him, he can still say the name. And I think that says something about him. A lot of people who say You Know Who have never had nothing happen to them personally still can't say the name.

fourscore @ June 28 2003, 19:47:50 UTC

Harry said it before anything happened to him, though. I really don't think someone not saying the name is a sign of cowardice. No one can say Ron is a coward. He probably thought he'd die on that chess board.

It seems like people who respect Voldemort also don't say his name, so it's not even just that people are afraid of it.

Anonymous @ June 28 2003, 19:52:02 UTC

I never said I thought they were cowards, either.

Yes, Harry said the name before he knew what that meant. But after those things happened to him, he could've stopped saying it, but he didn't. Before Voldemort became really horrible, I'm sure people who now won't say the name were saying it.

babytyggeryss @ June 28 2003, 20:54:10 UTC

I think the reason why Harry continues to use "Voldemort" is because Dumbledore does. In those early books, Dumbledore is the person Harry looks up to.

Dumbledore isn't afraid to call Voldie by any name. He's used "Voldemort" and "Tom." It shows that he isn't afraid and they are equals, if Dumbledore isn't the superior wizard.

One random question: what does Voldemort call Dumbledore?

weatherby @ June 28 2003, 21:13:08 UTC

He calls him Dumbledore and Albus Dumbledore, he refers to him in GoF.

dragynville @ June 28 2003, 22:35:29 UTC

I loved it when Dumbledore called him Tom. Showed him that he was not impressed by his whole Dark Lord act, and reminded him that he knew him when he was just a snot-nosed kid. XD

portkey @ June 28 2003, 20:22:05 UTC

It's interesting to see Remus acting this way. Normally, he's so reserved and quiet, but this time he's not bothering to hold back.

But really, can you blame him? Someone who is effectively his son was attacked, yet again, and while he's just recovering, people are still walking around saying 'You Know Who', like saying the name will somehow make him more real. More scary. And so Remus is trying as hard as he can to be strong, for Harry, and it's hard because he's so scared for the boy, and yet he has to hear people yelling at him to not say a bloody NAME. It seems as though his anger comes from the fact that he's expending so much energy to be there for Harry, while at the same time aching inside, and yet people are still succumbing to an irrational fear, not even trying to be strong and overcome it.

Not to say that Ron, or the twins, or anyone else actually feel that way, but that has to be what it seems like to Remus; that they're more concerned about not having to hear the name than they are about Harry's health.

Anonymous @ June 28 2003, 21:44:51 UTC

:-D

always_up_trees @ June 28 2003, 21:19:38 UTC Live thread!

Yeah, I am pretty bored too, as there seems to be no one around anywhere. Some one talk to me! About anything!

I am lurking at NA, hitting f5, but nothing has really caught my attention, although I do feel for Sirius. The sooner Harry heals, the better.