| tocomfortyou @ 2003-12-06 22:20:00 |
Letting it out and letting it go
Mood: 
distressed
Harry breaks my heart.
Comments:
| annotated_em @ December 6 2003, 22:40:32 UTC |
Ack.
That boy needs a hug.
[sobs into her booze]
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jacay @ December 6 2003, 23:40:08 UTC |
Laughs for Percy for being so oblivious, but hugs for Harry. Poor kids.
(parent)| anatidae @ December 7 2003, 02:21:47 UTC Where be Weasleys? |
Hello! I was just wondering if it was just me being stupid, because I don't see any mentions or comments from Percy?
:-? Am genuinely confused.
| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 20:15:41 UTC Re: Where be Weasleys? |
Perfectprefect *is* Percy.
(parent)| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 20:34:40 UTC Re: Where be Weasleys? |
Oh. Ignore my reply, then. Didn't know about the whole comment-vanishing thing.
(parent)| ekaterinn @ December 7 2003, 00:22:18 UTC |
Ouch.
There's a full moon this weekend, you know.
Double ouch.
Poor Harry. I'm glad that he and Sirius are talking (and cooking) again, though. At least they have each other.
| therealycats @ December 7 2003, 00:35:08 UTC |
At least Harry and his godfather are finally getting along again.
Percy needs to learn what sarcasm is :D
| dr_jekyl @ December 7 2003, 00:45:26 UTC |
Remus needs to be found (and loved)... Where the bloody hell is Severus?
(parent)| kat99999 @ December 7 2003, 01:14:04 UTC |
Oh wah! I always want to cuddle that boy, he is far too - wahhh. </3
(parent)| tabiji @ December 7 2003, 02:01:18 UTC |
Think so? To me it sounded like he's tired of people walking on eggshells around him...like he's worried and he wants to talk about it, but people are being overly polite and trying too hard to avoid the subject.
| black_dog @ December 7 2003, 03:45:45 UTC |
He's being kind of a shit to Neville though, don't you think? I mean, all Neville is really doing is confessing he's not sure how to approach Harry, or whether Harry wants to talk about Remus.
(parent)| black_dog @ December 7 2003, 15:38:55 UTC |
I really liked Neville's reply on Harry's thread. It just seems like exactly the right thing to say, without conceding an inch of his own dignity or letting his annoyance distract him from the main issue. It also quietly undermines Harry's claim to unique and special suffering.
I agree that all these characters consistently underrate Neville, treat him a bit offhandedly. But it's becoming increasingly clear that that's their loss. Go Neville!
| sistermagpie @ December 7 2003, 15:46:36 UTC |
Go Neville! I just saw his reply and I'm really glad I did!
I love NA Neville. He's so...not a loser in any way, shape or form. The way people dismiss him but he still has the dignity that comes from knowing who you are and how to stand on your own two feet because others aren't going to help you. Actually, I like him a lot more than NA Neville. NA Neville has developed into somebody I admire more than the Neville of Canon.
| darththalia @ December 7 2003, 16:44:01 UTC |
I think last summer was really good for Neville--he got some experience working, and a semi-romance, and he's had to cope with his grandmother's illness. Not to mention Snape's nEVILle theory last spring--I think Neville actually learned a lot from that about how to stand up for himself. He seems a lot more mature and self-confident now than he did at the start of the year, and I think it's great. I <3 Neville.
(I <3 Harry, too. Poor kid. And I'm still hoping for some Snackin action, eventually.)
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Anonymous @ December 7 2003, 18:49:39 UTC |
I really liked Neville's reply on Harry's thread. It just seems like exactly the right thing to say, without conceding an inch of his own dignity or letting his annoyance distract him from the main issue. It also quietly undermines Harry's claim to unique and special suffering.
Harry's reply obviously just wasn't directed toward Neville, so I don't think he was really being a bastard to Neville. I know I'd be annoyed if people were always whispering and walking on eggshells around me.
And the concern for a parent figure is on a whole different level than the concern for a professor or even friend. So, yeah, I think Harry has a lot more at stake on whether Lupin comes back then Neville or his other friends. I think he has the right to feel the way he does. I don't think his peers worry or concern even comes close.
| black_dog @ December 7 2003, 21:53:15 UTC |
Harry's reply obviously just wasn't directed toward Neville
Differences in the way we judge people are always interesting -- I think we disagree here, and I'll try to make my case.
First, it's true that Harry was covering a lot of bases in his post, but he made a specific dig at Neville in his reference to "talking about it in little letters" (See Neville's reply to Harry's reply to Neville's post) and he had most recently gone out of his way to rebuff Neville's efforts to cheer him up. I think Neville is correct to see that as directed at him.
Harry is understandably worried about a parent figure. But Neville is worried about his grandmother's stroke. Dean is worried about being disowned by his parents. A lot of people have troubles. I really do think that if people take their troubles as an excuse to respond with gratuitous rudeness to a genuine approach from a friend, then that's not very impressive.
People can't get through life without at least sometimes facing problems as severe and saddening as Harry's, and there are social forms for channeling those feelings. An outburst under stress is understandable. But it's also one reason people start walking on eggshells around people who behave that way, and maybe write them down as not-quite-together.
In contrast with the shot Harry took, Neville responded with dignity and managed to stand his ground without compromising his expression of sympathy for Harry. I still think Harry's the one who's out of line here, not Neville.
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Anonymous @ December 8 2003, 06:31:36 UTC |
Harry is understandably worried about a parent figure. But Neville is worried about his grandmother's stroke. Dean is worried about being disowned by his parents. A lot of people have troubles. I really do think that if people take their troubles as an excuse to respond with gratuitous rudeness to a genuine approach from a friend, then that's not very impressive.
Sorry, but I think worrying about whether someone is even alive right now is a bit more urgent.
In contrast with the shot Harry took, Neville responded with dignity and managed to stand his ground without compromising his expression of sympathy for Harry. I still think Harry's the one who's out of line here, not Neville.
To me, taking a shot at someone implies someting malicious. I don't think the tone of Harry's post was malicious, I thought he just sounded really tired.
| black_dog @ December 8 2003, 07:15:52 UTC |
I think worrying about whether someone is even alive right now is a bit more urgent.
The question isn't so much about relative urgency, I think -- it's about whether one's personal upset justifies nastiness, or rudeness, or even just the creation of deliberate awkwardness, to other people who are one's friends and who mean well. There are people who seem to feel it does. I find them flaky.
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Anonymous @ December 9 2003, 08:17:02 UTC |
Not to be flaky, but people deal with anxiety, fear, stress, etc in different ways. Harry's being short and snippy, and not expressing himself in the most kindly manner, sure, but he's not ripping anyone a new one, or being any other kind of violently offensive. In terms of human nature, it's certainly a level of reactivity I personally can forgive; in terms of characterization, I'm glad Harry isn't so pure as the driven snow that he handles all upset with graciousness and panache.
Also, I like what Harry's reaction gave Neville the chance to do, which is show his increasing maturity. He could have run off in a snit, or stuttered and quivered and cowered; instead, he reacted with understanding. Go Neville. (I suppose he may have been calling Harry a flake off-journal, but I doubt it. ;P)
I got a kick out of Narcissa's reply as well, and wonder how much of Harry's response is gratitude and how much is a great struggle not to shout "if you really think your husband is helping out you're a twit, lady!"
Draco's response is interesting, in that I'm curious as to the intended tone of his post. I suspect he's being snide. Normally, a snide reaction to this particular type of outburst would strike me as incredibly and unecessarily rude; but I've got the impression that Draco being snide to Harry in this RPG serves as a reality check for Harry, and that can often be a good thing.
Ah. Took off rambling there for a bit. Apologies.
- a different 'anonymous'
| black_dog @ December 9 2003, 09:44:17 UTC |
You know, after I posted that reply it occured to me that the way I used the word "flaky" might have seemed like a personal attack, but I really didn't mean it that way -- I just thought anonymous#1 wasn't really engaging the points in my first reply to him/her and so I put what I saw as the essence of it as pungently as I could. Sometimes when I assert things aggressively in argument I'm not so much trying to be crushing (an attempt that would be doomed to failure, anyway) as simply to present a clear target for further engagement. Anyway after I re-read it I thought, uh oh, and felt a bit bad, but I sort of hoped it would pass.
I do think that there was a line of response to Harry that just took it for granted that it was OK to get all snippy with his friends because of his personal upset, and I thought it was worth making a counterargument that stressed that this was not an attractive trait; I've actually been simultaneously kicking around theories of Harry's arrogance and self-imposed isolation from his friends on another thread with sister magpie. So the issue, and the unattractive streak in Harry's character, were on my mind.
I agree with you that people deal with anxiety and stress in different ways -- from the Dalai Lama to, you know, the DC snipers ;) -- and we judge them accordingly. I do take a harsher line on Harry over his behavior here than you do, I think -- he's humiliating Neville to some extent, and the psychological dynamic is very similar to what he's doing to Dudley on p. 13 of OOTP, "siphoning off his own frustration" to a person with whom he feels he can get away with it. Like you, I noticed that he was able to control himself and respond politely to Narcissa, which makes his rudeness toward Neville seem even more caclulated and selfish.
I guess whether it was valid for me to insist on the point ultimately depends on how relevant the behavior is to a total reading of Harry's character. If it is simply a matter of humanizing him by showing a random minor flaw, then I agree, it probably wouldn't be worth picking an argument over. But I guess my reading of his character is that this particular tendency to arrogance, and to deliberate cruelty (even if it's mild cruelty) is fairly rich and suggestive about how Harry thinks of himself right now, about the trajectory of Harry's coming to terms with the whole TBWL thing, and about how his emotionally significant relationships -- most imporantly with Ron and with PS right now -- are all being distorted by the stress he's under.
Anyway, I do sense you were poking me a bit for the tone of my post, and I accept that; I can see how it came off and I apologize to anyone who was offended. But again, I think the underlying point was one worth stressing.
| sistermagpie @ December 8 2003, 07:31:05 UTC |
Sorry, but I think worrying about whether someone is even alive right now is a bit more urgent.
More urgent than what? Neville's not trying to compete with Harry's feelings here, he's offering support by telling him he's got friends and they're thinking about Lupin too. Other people's problems don't become nothing because they don't compare to this specific stress of Harry's. Neville was certainly worried about his grandmother being alive when she had her stroke (and I think he's now thinking about her death a lot), he's also got two parents in Saint Mungo's. He's never criticized that way people tried to express sympathy for it (or that they haven't expressed sympathy for it). Even if somebody hasn't ever gone through anything like Harry's been through that doesn't make them incapable of being truly sympathetic (though Neville is one student who certainly can compete with Harry in terms of loss and loneliness).
I think Neville came across as very mature the way he stayed sensitive to Harry while still giving him good advice not to reject sympathy because it's not given perfectly. Harry's cutting himself off from comfort here. He told Neville to stop pussyfooting around and Neville has now stopped pussyfooting around and said flatout that he knows Harry's upset and he's sympathetic even if he doesn't always show it in the best way. Then he even asks Harry to forgive everyone for not being the friends he wants them to be, which is pretty classy. Neville is, imo, advising Harry not to choose to be isolated in ways he doesn't have to be. People do die, as Lupin could, which is why it's always, imo, a better idea to appreciate people's impulses to be sympathetic even while being driven crazy by how they express it.
| lazy_daze @ December 7 2003, 02:00:26 UTC |
;_; Harry, Harry, Harry. Poor boy. God, that's unnerving about the full moon. What if the DEs are going to let him loose as as untamed wolf and let him kill a load of people? That would destroy Remus. And possibly get him locked up/executed!! *wibbles*!!!
(parent)| lazy_daze @ December 7 2003, 04:23:17 UTC |
I've scared myself! *wibble* It won't happen, hopefully, it's just some worst-case scenario my wibble-fried brain came up with *hopes*
(parent)| maggie_malfoy @ December 7 2003, 06:12:17 UTC |
You are not helping to disperse the angst, young lady! *weeps*
(parent)| therealycats @ December 7 2003, 08:16:14 UTC |
Dude that would be COOL. Everyone likes a mauling!
Oh. Ok. Sorry. Heh!
| ekaterinn @ December 7 2003, 09:51:12 UTC |
*cracks up* *sings* "If you hear him howling around your kitchen door/Better not let him in/Little old lady got mutilated late last night/Werewolves of London again."
Hey, it's a break from the angst. *fends off wibbling fangirls*
Aroo. ^^;
| therealycats @ December 7 2003, 10:01:51 UTC |
Daily Prophet Special Edition:
WEREWOLF KILLS HUNDREDS
Remus Lupin, a professor at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, was taken into custody this morning after it was discovered that he killed several Muggles and wizards last night. Lupin turned himself in after discovering what happened. Lupin was away from Hogwarts at the request of Headmaster Albus Dumbledore, who had apparently sent him on a mission. Lupin went missing shortly after his departure from the school. It is unknown at this time where Lupin has been until now, who he was with, and who was responsible for letting him loose last night, if indeed he is not solely responsible for his actions, as he claims.
This story continues in section E, page 4.
Dude...I must be REALLY bored to write that crap :D
| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 21:25:09 UTC |
too much tension ... all wibbled out ... can't stop describing symptoms of angst ...
(parent)| therealycats @ December 7 2003, 21:26:22 UTC |
Angst gets irritating. This is why we must laugh at it, so it does not drive us insane and cause us to rip our hair out. As a long time reader of Anne Rice, I know about these things :D
(parent)| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 21:28:57 UTC |
Meh. I can't read Anne Rice anymore. She's lost it. I couldn't even make it all the way through The Vampire Armand, and he was my favorite from the start.
(parent)| therealycats @ December 7 2003, 21:29:54 UTC |
I can't either; I refuse to read the latest. I've just been rereading TVL for a paper this week though so it's on the brain. And she is the angstiest of them all. *nods*
(parent)| dari_brit @ December 7 2003, 19:19:40 UTC |
There's definitely a fic to that tune...Snape/Lupin, incidentally. ^_-
(parent)| ekaterinn @ December 7 2003, 20:00:10 UTC |
To Werewolves of London? And it's Snupin? Do you have the link? (Pretty please with Remuses on top...)
(parent)| maggie_malfoy @ December 7 2003, 06:07:43 UTC |
So December will be angst an woe as well then... Wonderful.
I'll be over in the corner weeping if anyone should need me.
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Anonymous @ December 7 2003, 08:47:49 UTC |
As will I...I absolutlely adore your icon...it makes me wibble..
(parent) |
Anonymous @ December 7 2003, 14:02:57 UTC |
Ok guys. I want to know everyone's theories on Mr. Remus. nancyrose, therealycats,luna_lg, hobaggions, all of ya. At least then I can get everyone's take on this stuff. Because I'm driving myself insane with it!
(parent)| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 20:25:26 UTC I have an announcement ... |
In protest at the unjustifiable way (imo) that Nocturne Alley has left us hanging all this time, re the fate of our beloved Moony, I have decided to refrain from reading any further posts until they tell us what the hell they've done with the world's nicest werewolf. I'll still be checking Nraged for updates, but neither Nocturne Alley nor the individual LJs of the characters will be visited by me until they clear this up for us.
Aroo.
| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 22:38:23 UTC |
No. I'm boycotting until they tell us what's happening with Remus. Alive or dead, I just want to know.
(parent)| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 22:42:49 UTC |
I'm serious, dammit! Don't make me get all scary-icon on you ...
(parent) |
hobaggins @ December 7 2003, 22:43:52 UTC |
I'm sorry, boycotting an RPG because of a plot point (that isn't even offensive just worrisome) is humorous.
(parent)| magickslash @ December 7 2003, 22:48:00 UTC |
That's ok. It's not even really a point of principle, it's just that I'm moving next weekend and that's causing a lot of rl stress. It just doesn't help that when I try to escape into a fandom to take my mind off things, I find a whole new source of tension and anxiety. So I'm just steering clear until I'm at least settled in my new home (though, please God/dess, we hear from Moony before then).
(parent)| vassilissa @ December 9 2003, 00:58:17 UTC Re: I have an announcement ... |
People go missing for longer in real life.
(parent)| magickslash @ December 9 2003, 03:44:54 UTC Re: I have an announcement ... |
I realize that. But this isn't real life, and real life is causing me enough tension and anxiety as it is right now. I don't also need to get it from what I use to escape the tension and anxiety.
(parent) |
hobaggins @ December 9 2003, 22:22:53 UTC |
Trying to pressure characters in an RPG to alter their game because you're stressed in real life is sort of selfish, don't you think?
They've been playing longer than you've been watching, they probably know what they're doing.
| magickslash @ December 9 2003, 22:46:09 UTC |
Making assumptions without being bothered to take in all the relevant info is sort of conceited, don't you think?
As I've stated twice already, real life is causing me enough stress as it is at the moment. I don't need if from what I use to escape the stress. Until either my life or the rpg becomes a little less stressful, I'll take them one at a time. Provided you have no objection, of course.
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hobaggins @ December 9 2003, 22:47:57 UTC |
I think you're being sensational by announcing it.
It gives the impression of trying to alter the way the game is played., which is unfair to the players as well as anyone watching.
| magickslash @ December 9 2003, 23:23:02 UTC |
What you think is your own business. I'm not going to censor myself because I'm worried that another LJ name might get the wrong impression.
Are you saying you speak for all of Nocturne Alley? If none of the players feel my reply was enough of a sensation to take notice of, your one protest isn't going to carry much weight.
Unless you can assert that you've never said so when you didn't like how a game was being played, this whole debate is null and void. I'm through with it, anyway.
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hobaggins @ December 10 2003, 04:26:04 UTC |
I don't speak for NA, but I do speak for a lot of its fans, and I don't want the players to be getting the wrong impresion of how WE feel about how the game is played.
When people don't disagree with how the game is played, they don't say anything, and it gives off a wrong show. Not everyone is complaining abuot how the game is being played. I'm just showing teh dissenting voice to all of the complaining.
What I should have said was, "This is something you should have posted in your own journal." Because it is. If this was posted in your journal it wouldn't matter. When you post it to a community people in teh community have a right to question the validity of your position. You put it here to be seen. And if not by other members of the community, than by the players which was exactly my point. That you are trying to alter the game. Which is ridiculous. And I have a right to point that out. You posted in a public forum.
The players don't police nraged, they don't censor unless it's something completely out of hand, like someone outing a plyer. However a lot of them do follow nraged a lot closer than you'd think. And the number of responses saying, "OMG *WIBBLE* SO WRONG! BAD NA!" isn't an accurate representation of how all the people following feel. Your comment was even worse. I didn't mean to get into a large public battle, however, it just made me queasy to see all these people agreeing you because the majority of people watching certainly DO NOT. They just don't like to talk in nraged any longer because the intellectual level has dropped so completely here. They've no one to talk to because the repsonse they get is, "OMG THEY'RE SO SHAGGING. LOL ^_^"
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asciian @ December 9 2003, 05:02:06 UTC Re: I have an announcement ... |
Ah, but we all have internet attention spans :P
(parent)| onthehillside @ December 9 2003, 16:35:04 UTC |
Honestly, that boy is in a funk. I feel sorry for ps. He's trying to cheer the guy up, and j_h is having none of it. Oh well, at least Harry didn't completely blow him off.
(parent)| bubblebee @ December 9 2003, 18:11:54 UTC |
Awww
That almosts breaks my heart. At least he's trying - in his own special way ^_^