chez_caillou @ May 2 2004, 23:53:39 UTC

I doubt Draco will reply or, if he does, give a real answer. He's probably bitter and angry that j_h didn't listen to him before friday (with the screened comment and all).

But I hope he answers and they make up. :(

ex_lev195 @ May 2 2004, 23:56:15 UTC

Of course we technically don't have confirmation that j_h didn't listen to him but I suppose if j_h is asking now they probably didn't talk. Gr.

I'm hoping Draco will reply if only to tell Harry to fuck off. Or go away, since he normally doesn't swear.

chez_caillou @ May 2 2004, 23:58:49 UTC

<333

A reply!

chinae @ May 2 2004, 23:59:22 UTC

oh, damn. Woobies.

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 00:00:45 UTC

Well, fuck.

linuial @ May 3 2004, 00:09:33 UTC

Ouch. That's gotta sting.

jenicomprispas @ May 3 2004, 00:29:43 UTC

Like a very stinging thing. Hello, love! <3! *totally on topic*

linuial @ May 3 2004, 09:14:43 UTC

Hey there, sexy lady ;) *is also on topic*

Poor Harry, but yet I somehow feel he deserves this. If he wasn't there for Draco, how can he expect him to explain things after the fact? Bad form, old boy.

kat99999 @ May 3 2004, 00:27:26 UTC

Bwah! clearly he is playing hard to get! And it's working, man. :D

akimbie @ May 2 2004, 23:59:25 UTC

oh bugger and i was just about to go to bed too

merlion @ May 3 2004, 00:27:52 UTC

Now Harry is using the word please

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 00:29:25 UTC

I wonder if he will eventually resort to large font as well.

merlion @ May 3 2004, 00:32:03 UTC

Hmmm. That could be a little drastic. More of a Ron-esque style. And this *is* a rather public forum. Of course, the Malfoys haven't seemed to care much in the last couple of days.

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 00:35:00 UTC

He might at least bust out the caps lock which is also rather Ron-esque but he may be provoked to it. Well. Probably not as he appears to lack a great deal of anger at the moment.

The Malfoys have turned into posting freaks. *cough*

merlion @ May 3 2004, 00:36:25 UTC

Not that we are complaining ....

Draco has also alerted us to the "irony" of this situation.

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 00:51:21 UTC

Look at Harry trying to make amends - why can't they just talk argh the tension and suspense is killing me

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 00:54:01 UTC

I love that he's echoing Draco in the last conversation--"That's not the point." :-)

Don't gloat too long, ps. Just talk to him already.

Anonymous @ May 3 2004, 00:56:23 UTC

I don't really think he's gloating. He would have used the "I have quite the cutting wit" icon on the irony reply if he was, I think.

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 00:58:13 UTC

But he's 'vaguely unimpressed'

The situation really is ironic.

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 01:03:22 UTC

You're right--I should have said, "don't be too stubborn."

Which is probably like telling him to not be too blond.

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:04:13 UTC

heh.

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 00:36:47 UTC

Any posting is good posting in my book.

shamera @ May 3 2004, 02:05:37 UTC

That's a good point. ^_^
Unless, of course, it starts up another argument or another period where they refuse to talk to each other. >_> Then that kind of disillusions us about them talking offline. >_O

nabiki @ May 3 2004, 00:36:05 UTC

Though I must say, at least they're talking at all and Draco didn't quite hold true to his threat..even though I'm hoping draco will talk with Harry, I doubt he will after being abandoned like that last time..

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 00:36:57 UTC

Considering Draco's latest reply, if he agrees to talk to Harry the world may end as we know it--or all of NA's unsolved mysteries will miraculously be solved.

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 01:01:20 UTC

Hm, looks like ps is dismissing j_h now. I wonder if it will work. ...Hopefully not. ...I wonder if ps banned him from commenting again. x_x

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:03:40 UTC

The worst thing is, last week when Draco wanted to talk to Harry he was very verbal about it with the big bold font and manic posting. But here harry is being really calm and doesn't really seem to be trying very hard to make amends and get Draco to talk to him. So I suppose I'm finding it hard to be sympathetic to Harry, although in some ways he was in the right when he didn't talk to Draco last week because of the way that he had been behaving

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 01:11:01 UTC

Gotta say, isn't it kind of amazing if Draco faced down a big snake and came out alive without needing to be rescued? Not to downplay Dacey's death at all, but this doesn't seem like the thing he'd like to face. It makes me wonder if it might give him some confidence that could make him a better person able to think about things realistically. He even as that moment where it seems like both him and Narcissa are angry at Lucius for this thing, before he apologizes.

We've seen two times now where Draco's sort of asserted himself in a new way--he reminds his parents that only he and Dacey were in the room together, and earlier he corrected Lucius that Pansy was his girlfriend. Also, he brushes off whatever happened with "these things happen. It was rather alarming," without making a point of making himself a hero. I don't know if this is significant, but I wonder if it is.

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:14:20 UTC

yes, its unusual he didn't make a "I am so great, these are my heroic exploits" post like he normally does.

And i loved the way that he stood up to his father about Pansy. Fantastic.

Anonymous @ May 3 2004, 02:26:06 UTC

It think that it is significant. And that you are a genius.

conversant @ May 3 2004, 14:17:05 UTC

I agree that it may be a good thing in the long run if Draco has stood on his own feet. I said this somewhere below in the middle of a tangled (and now outline-ized) thread about whether j_h owes ps an apology, but I'll say it here, too: I think it can only be destructive in the long run if ps gets cast in the damsel-in-distress role, thinking that he needs j_h or someone else to save him. That sort of inequality in the relationship would surely intensify ps's feelings of being underestimated, which would only deepen his already-present feelings of envy and bitterness. I think he'd end up hating both himself and j_h.

So, if he's stood on his own and didn't really need j_h's help, then maybe he'll realize that it isn't help/protection he wants from j_h, but companionship/friendship/support/love.

I'm hoping that j_h doesn't go overboard now in apologizing.

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 15:02:21 UTC

That's just what I'm hoping too, which is part of why I'm hoping there's significance in his seeming to reject fawning from his parents over the incident. I don't think Harry really needs to apologize to him overmuch. I mean, Harry was presumably wrong in claiming Draco was lying about whatever he said in the screened comment, but I don't think he needs to feel too badly about not being there to rescue ps from this, or not responding to ps' requests to talk the way ps wanted him to.

shamera @ May 3 2004, 02:11:09 UTC

I do think that Harry's trying hard to make amends. Maybe it's just the way that I'm reading it, but he seems quite desparate for Draco to talk to him. Draco may have used large fonts and such last week, but Harry doesn't strike me as the type of person to do that. If he's extremely angry, he'll use caps, but that's about it. He doesn't even use excessive exclaimation marks, instead settling for caps with period to make his point across most of the time.

It *is* quite ironic about the whole situation being turned around, though, but last week Harry was genuinely mad at Draco, whereas Draco's ignoring Harry out of spite this time. I dunno.. maybe I'm just way too partial to J_H, but I really don't blame him at all and feel sorry for him that the situation's all turned around.

chez_caillou @ May 3 2004, 01:07:05 UTC

Harry replied! I really hope ps answers... or Harry keeps asking to talk to him. :\ *fangirls live thread*

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:08:33 UTC

Seriosuly if Draco doesn't reply I'm still going to be sitting at my computer refreshing until morning anyway. The tension is simply too much to take. This is going to be a long night...

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 01:25:13 UTC

Harry freakin' apologized! The boy's amazing!

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:29:24 UTC

yay!!!!!!!!

mamadeb @ May 3 2004, 01:25:22 UTC

Harry apologized.

Please accept it.

allthat_jazz @ May 3 2004, 01:26:58 UTC

Harry attempts an apology, but he doesn't sound too enthusiastic. I think Harry's going to learn that this is too little, too late.

allthat_jazz @ May 3 2004, 01:28:54 UTC

And I should have noticed that other people already posted this. Oops ^_^

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 01:31:02 UTC

is that a Michael Vartan icon? Very cool.

allthat_jazz @ May 3 2004, 01:36:15 UTC

Yes! I love that man. *fangirls Vartan*

frozen_jelly @ May 3 2004, 02:43:50 UTC

RE: the Lisa response, at least he is still online and therefore has seen Harry's apology, even if he hasn't deigned to respond to it (yet?)

Thank god its a bank holiday tomorrow and I don't have to get up for class!

vassilissa @ May 3 2004, 03:01:01 UTC

I think it's Harry's move. It wasn't exactly a gracious apology, just "I was wrong. I'm sorry, okay?" I don't think it is OK, not after Draco was pleading, desperate to see him. I mean, it's an important acknowledgement, go Harry, and he does have the normal amount of backbone for a 17-year-old boy, but still, if he wants to keep the dialogue open with Draco (IhopeIhopeIhope) I think he's going to need to make it fuller and more unqualified. Asking for forgiveness more explicitly than 'okay?' would be a nice touch.

I know Draco's done worse and been less gracious, but Harry isn't as often just plain in the wrong, so it's a bigger deal when he is. Which seems unfair, but it's practical too. Draco's less equipt to handle it.

I do like how low-key Harry's being in this conversation, I just think he's going to need to do something more before Draco will talk to him again.

greenvarnish @ May 3 2004, 04:24:31 UTC

What saddens me is that Harry's come looking for Draco AFTER the whole thing was over. I mean, Draco had abandoned his facade and had even posted on the community, seeking Harry out, [consequently getting a reprimand from Lucius in the process.] To me, that really proved how desperate Draco felt. And, despite how justified Harry may have been for ignoring him, after all the shit Draco pulled, I still can't help but feel angered at Harry. And the ungracious apology doesn't help much, either.

I know Draco's done worse and been less gracious, but Harry isn't as often just plain in the wrong, so it's a bigger deal when he is.
I agree. Harry isn't usually so stubborn and hard-headed, [although it was delightfully in-character at the same time, OoTP-wise,] and the fact that he was now, that he behaved like such an ass, [for lack of a better word,] really makes it less forgiveable. Especially considering the damn circumstances!

I'm hoping that, instead of waiting for Draco to respond on lj, that Harry acted on some Gryffindor impulse and sought out for him in person. ;)

Anonymous @ May 3 2004, 04:38:07 UTC

Especially considering the damn circumstances!

Draco obviously needed Harry. As it has been said before, he was out of character in asking for Harry. If Harry talked to Draco, would things have happened differently on Friday (assuming That Whatever Happened was What We All Think Happened)? If that is the case, "I'm sorry, okay?" wouldn't even be nearly close to the groveling Harry should be doing.

I'm a hardcore j_h fan, but I would fully understand if Draco was bitter and didn't forgive Harry for a long time, if ever. That's dependant on What Happened and How Draco Feels about it.

shamera @ May 3 2004, 05:37:05 UTC

Wow, I seem to be the only one who might disagree with that statement. ^^;;
I can't be the only one who understands how hard it is to say you're sorry after a stupid argument you have with someone. Yes, Draco was most certainly desperate when he wanted to talk with Harry- so much that he was completely OOC over it. And I was mad that Harry wouldn't talk to Draco- even if the reason is justified with his anger. He's a Gryffindor. And even if he wasn't, I'd think that he's friends with Lavender and to Harry's eyes- Draco has just hurt Lavender. Surely we all remember how angry we get when one of our friends has been hurt?

So no, I don't blame Harry for not talking to Draco at all. I was mad, yes, but that was because I was a bystander that really, really, really wanted the two of them to talk.
Think back. How angry were you when one of your friends purposely hurt another of your friends? And then that very same friend wants to talk to you and uses measures they normally don't use. I really don't think that the first thing that came into Harry's head was 'oh! Draco's acting weird and desperately wants to talk to me! I should really talk to him!' but instead, all he can think about is that Draco (whom he trusted and loved and had been an asshole the entire week) had hurt Lavender. Harry himself was already suffering from the tragedy with what happened to the Weasley family, but that must have been additional (last?) straws.
Draco was horrible to the Weasleys. Harry punched him. But instead of the blonde coming to his senses, he started doing more horrible things (to get Harry's attention, of course, but would Harry really see it that way?) and then broke Lavender's arm on top of it. I think the very last straw, though, was that Draco kissed Lavender.

The entirety of what happened was a giant betrayel from Harry's point of view. He was furious at the time, and did not want to talk to Draco, seeing the Slytherin's attempts to contact him as just more of Draco's attemts to make him angry.
But now that everything's happened, Harry's starting to regret not talking to Draco. Enough to say that he's sorry, in fact (which is a big thing to say, especially in the case of teenaged boys) and overlook everything that Draco's done to talk to him again.
But then, Harry's just like that. He's very persistant if he wants to talk to someone; not the way that Draco is (with the giant font and shouting and whatnots), but it the way of multiple posts (remember when he wanted to talk to Draco and just kept posting about cleaning grass stains?), which he's doing now.

So I really think that Harry is trying really hard, and shouldn't have to go through more groveling. I adore Draco, but he did bring this upon himself with the threat that if Harry didn't talk to him, he would do something drastic to make Harry regret it. (Sure, Harry should have known that Draco would follow through with that... but Draco should grow up enough not to make statements like that. He's 18... more than old enough to be considered an adult!)

takeonelook @ May 3 2004, 07:09:01 UTC

I don't have anything to add since you've pretty much said what I'd been thinking so.....word. I don't like how everyone is blaming Harry.

vassilissa @ May 3 2004, 07:19:48 UTC

I'm not blaming him, and as I said, he has the normal amount of backbone for a 17-year-old boy, and I wouldn't want him to have any less.

He messed up, and he apologised, and grovelling would rightly stick in his craw, *but*, I think Draco's going to need more. It's not about what's fair or unfair, or who deserved what, or who's to blame, it's about keeping the relationship going.

And right now, I think it's up to Harry to do a mature thing, because Draco *can't*. He's been working at it all year, and made strides, but in some ways he and Harry are at different stages of development, and I think that means that at this point Harry has choices and perspective Draco doesn't have.

Not forgetting that he's young too, and also confused and in complicated and frightening circumstances, of course.

*reloads*
And he is doing more. He's sending an owl. Good on you, BWL.

lestrange @ May 3 2004, 07:56:56 UTC

I know Draco's done worse and been less gracious, but Harry isn't as often just plain in the wrong, so it's a bigger deal when he is. Which seems unfair, but it's practical too. Draco's less equipt to handle it.

It troubles me that just because Harry is usually considered more sensible, he is expected to 'be the bigger man' in this situation and received more reproach--or thought to deserve more reproach--when he's in the wrong. If anything, shouldn't that allow him more leeway, since he doesn't usually act the immature brat?

The reasoning that Harry is more used to apologizing than Draco, so he is at more fault when he doesn't apologize, is very, er, *lacksadequatewordtodescribecanonlyfeelmoresorryforj_hnow*.

vassilissa @ May 3 2004, 08:37:09 UTC

The reasoning that Harry is more used to apologizing than Draco, so he is at more fault when he doesn't apologize, is very, er, *lacksadequatewordtodescribecanonlyfeelmoresorryforj_hnow*.

Yes, I agree. I didn't say that, by the way. He made a bad call by not seeing Draco before, not by not apologising fully enough.

And it's most unfair. In a fair world, he *should* be allowed more leeway. The question is, does he want fair, or does he want Draco? (at this point more like, does he want a chance at sorting out whether he and Draco want each other?)

act the immature brat
I really don't think Draco's acting. And while he's responsible for his behaviour, it's still not his fault that he didn't learn to behave like a decent human being earlier. It's not like learning addition and subtraction, it's like learning to walk.

In time, given time, their emotional ages will balance out better, and there'll be more give and take about it.

I'm assuming, in all of this theorising, that the Big Bad is coming, and they're making their emotional choices under fear of death or other permanent separation. If I'm wrong, and the Death Eaters continue to kill non-human sapients but otherwise let the wizarding race muddle on into adulthood, then Harry can tell Draco to grow up or go to hell, and Draco can become a Death Eater with no more consequences than voting Coalition in the next Australian federal election.

IOW, my attitude is "save it now while there's still something left to save! you can sort the details out later!" In personality, I'm more like Draco than like Harry.

shamera @ May 3 2004, 13:56:49 UTC

IOW, my attitude is "save it now while there's still something left to save! you can sort the details out later!" In personality, I'm more like Draco than like Harry.

^_^; Yeah, I guess the relationship definitely needs a more Machiavellian attitude if it wants to survive. I guess I myself was biased that despite all the times Harry's reached out and gotten rejected with just a few scattered huffs from Nraged, Draco reaches out once and gets rejected, and suddenly Harry's at fault.

I'm just afraid that Draco's going to continually ignore Harry *again*, or that if they do start the relationship off again like this- it's going to always be like this. Draco's going to get used to Harry reaching out all the time and trying to make amends- and he's going to realize one day that he never has to do anything in the relationship other than be there, and if he's upset, he can ignore Harry and the other boy will do what it takes to get Draco back.

Maybe I'm taking the more parental stance on this, then. I know that this is a bad time to do it, especially with everything going on, but I just think that Draco needs to learn how to meet Harry halfway. The thing wrong with the entire H/D picture is that one or the other is always reaching out, but they don't seem to find each other there halfway. And especially with all the things going on, I think it might be surprising what people can learn about themselves and others under times of distress.

conversant @ May 3 2004, 14:02:11 UTC

I'm with you. It is not a bad time for Harry to hold the line and insist that there have to be consequences and that there are moral stakes in the choices Draco makes: it is the most important time of all. It is now or never, in fact.

conversant @ May 3 2004, 13:59:21 UTC

I've got to disagree with your assertion that Harry's done something wrong, that he's "messed up" or that he "made a bad call by not seeing Draco before." For Harry to apologize and make up with Draco at this point without bringing Draco to realize that his behavior has been unacceptable (and his treatment of the Weasleys and Hermione and Lavender was *absolutely* unacceptable) -- for Harry to apologize and do all the work of getting back together with Draco only confirms that Draco can be as infantile as he wishes because he has his lover wrapped around his little finger and he will be indulged in whatever tantrums he pulls.

Several posts ago, you said, "I know Draco's done worse and been less gracious, but Harry isn't as often just plain in the wrong, so it's a bigger deal when he is. Which seems unfair, but it's practical too. Draco's less equipt to handle it." and in this most recent post you argue that "while he's responsible for his behaviour, it's still not his fault that he didn't learn to behave like a decent human being earlier. It's not like learning addition and subtraction, it's like learning to walk. In time, given time, their emotional ages will balance out better, and there'll be more give and take about it." There can be no learning and no balancing if Draco is not held to account for his inappropriate behaviours. If Harry caves in, he only teaches Draco that there's no need to walk, someone will pick you up and carry you if you pout enough. This lesson is only the more important if, as you suggest, the Big Bad is coming.

Draco has been the boy who cried wolf. Everything that happens to him is a Great Conspiracy to Make PS Suffer Great Trauma and Dire Inconvenience No Human Should Ever be Forced to Suffer. If there was an actual dire threat waiting for him this most recent time, then frankly, it's his own fault if j_h didn't believe him. The fact that he faced some serious trial on Friday is not, retroactively, justification for the things he did beforehand, nor is it a trump card to prove that j_h should have gone light on ps when he pouted and stamped his feet and used all caps and really big type to demand j_h's attention.

In fact, I'm inclined to think that ps needed to face whatever it was that he faced on Friday. If, in fact, he faced Voldemort and/or Nagini, then he's experienced something j_h faced a long time ago. PS can only really be a partner to j_h if he does not feel that he needs j_h to save him. (If he has to be the "damsel in distress" in their relationship, I think he will feel resentful, inadequate, underestimated, and bitter -- in larger and larger doses over time.) In the long run, I think ps would hate himself and hate j_h, if he feels he can't stand on his own beside j_h.

I'm going to take this farther. I hope that j_h will not reconcile with ps if ps has taken the Dark Mark. If ps survived Friday night by pledging loyalty to Voldemort, then I hope j_h thinks very, very seriously before he allows ps to get anywhere near him in future. J_H, after all, has faced Voldemort and refused to submit to him. The Voldemort issue is not one with any room for compromise. Compromise on Voldemort looks like this: "Oh, it's okay to kill a house elf or a few Mudbloods or torture a few Weasleys to death if you 'have' to do it in order to save your own life." Even Slytherins can be expected to recognize the moral line in the sand here: it is not alright to join a murderer in order to keep from being murdered.

I would, of course, have been extremely sorry to see ps stand up to Voldemort and die (as, perhaps, George Weasley recently did); however, if ps survived an encounter with Voldemort by cravenly submitting to him, then j_h would have to be nuts to think he could ever be safe with ps. After all, if ps would pledge loyalty to Voldemort to save his skin, the next step would surely be for Voldemort to pressure ps into betraying j_h. It will always be a do this or die (do this or your Mother dies/ do this or your Father dies/ do this or you die) ultimatum, and if ps responds to those situations by going along with Voldemort, then j_h needs to get over whatever feelings he has for ps before he ends up on the snake's menu.

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 14:17:27 UTC

Well, you just said it better than I ever could! I just can't blame Harry for anything here. Yes, to us, we can see why he should have listened to Draco but Harry had no way of knowing Draco wasn't freaking out over something trivial. Draco did drop his facade, but not completely. He was still saying, "Well, obviously you should talk to me because I want you to." He didn't give any notice to Harry's own real desperation when he was asking what the hell Draco was doing to the Weasleys and to Lavender. Harry was, in his own way, just as desperately trying to get Draco to talk to him as Draco was trying to get Harry to talk to him. And it's understandable Harry would have no way of knowing Draco was facing an actual trial since up until now Draco's practically been defined by not being Harry. Most of his dramas are self-produced and his tragedies exaggerated.

I'm hoping, as I said somewhere else, that this experience has been good for Draco as well. He's asserted himself, imo, more in the past few days than he ever has before to his father, to the point where he apologized for being "hostile." And he hasn't done it by being petty or over-the-top, he's been relatively quiet and firm so that Lucius is now trying to get back to him, it seems like. He's even firmly denied Narcissa's fawning over the incident, telling her he's fine. He hasn't responded to Lucius second correction about Pansy and his asking how Draco is. I definitely think that whatever happened it's better than Draco didn't have Harry there to help him-and that the reason he didn't have Harry there was his own fault.

The only problem I see now is that perhaps Harry's questions come across to ps as not being personal but just professional. Like Harry wants to know what went on, wants to know about Voldemort, as opposed to being concerned about ps himself. But perhaps not. We know how ps is about these things--if he says he doesn't want to see Harry he usually wants Harry to just make more of an effort. I don't really think Harry should grovel or needs to because, as you say, that would just put them back in the same dynamic of Draco being a baby and Harry coddling him. I'm *hoping* that since Draco has actually faced something, no matter what it was, that he might be able to deal with Harry a little more maturely because he won't be feeling like such a pathetic coward in relation to him. He hasn't become Harry Potter, but at least he's taken a step into the adult world.

I'm also hoping this sucker punch gets addressed by somebody.

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 14:24:06 UTC

p.s. Oh, and when I say we know that Harry "should have listened" to ps I mean because there was some Voldemort-related activity he could have learned about, not that ps was really upset so Harry owed it to him to listen after what he'd done.

shamera @ May 3 2004, 14:24:07 UTC

Wow, all of my sentiments, but with more articulation and forcefulness. :D Except I'm going to try and take the loyalty a bit farther in hope of theorizing what PS's position on this would be.

It will always be a do this or die (do this or your Mother dies/ do this or your Father dies/ do this or you die) ultimatum

It's as if you've read my thoughts and sorted them into plain English. LOL. My stance on this matter is that PS really needs to be choosing sides NOW. He's put it off for extremely long, and I would understand why he did it (the whole family or Harry question is not an easy one to decide, especially since he does indeed seem to have a doting family whom both provides him and pressures him) as whatever decision he makes would have a great impact on his life.

But this decision should have taken place on Friday. Did he chose the DE? Did he refuse and that's why Narcissa's been so out of it lately? It's a great possibility that his family was threatened, and in light of recent posts, the situation hasn't gone over well. (Especially Lucius's post about how 'Draco did very well' and then comparing it to himself all those years ago.)

It's more than understood that yes, Draco was very conflicted about the whole thing. He wanted to talk to Harry about it and was rejected. But that ultimately doesn't make it right for Draco if he did join the DEs on Friday. Especially if he's this confused. Because that would mean that if he joined, it did it out of spite to J_H, because he let his emotions cloud his mind. And I think that Harry has enough confusion at this point of his life not to add Draco's problems on that list, especially if the Dark Lord can use Draco as a weapon against Harry.

conversant @ May 3 2004, 14:29:05 UTC

You've just summed up what we still don't know about Friday and how important those unknowns are.

Sigh.

Ah, NA, how I love you!

sistermagpie @ May 3 2004, 15:10:23 UTC

I still have a problem believing this was about Draco joining the DEs, though. To me it seems more like the biggest thing it would be would be his first meeting with Voldemort and if that's what it was I haven't yet seen any indications that Draco is a lost cause if he's beginning to question the events of the evening. He's not full out against him, but he does seem to be a little more woken up than usual.

Plus it's just...why would he have joined them? We don't know exactly how one goes about joining, but it's a big secret society--a terrorist organization. It seems odd that it would just be a case of Dad bringing you home one weekend and them saying, "We're the DEs...you in?" Seems like it would be a longer process where Voldemort saw if he thought Draco was worthy and Draco decided what he wanted to do (since Lucius claims Voldemort only takes willing followers). Even fraternities would require more pledging than one night and somebody agreeing to a tattoo to avoid being killed.

vassilissa @ May 4 2004, 04:58:18 UTC

*sigh of relief*

conversant @ May 3 2004, 14:08:34 UTC Answering Lestrange

It troubles me that just because Harry is usually considered more sensible, he is expected to 'be the bigger man' in this situation and received more reproach--or thought to deserve more reproach--when he's in the wrong. If anything, shouldn't that allow him more leeway, since he doesn't usually act the immature brat?

The reasoning that Harry is more used to apologizing than Draco, so he is at more fault when he doesn't apologize, is very, er, *lacksadequatewordtodescribecanonlyfeelmoresorryforj_hnow*.

I think you are right that the reasoning you describe is wrong and counter-productive with regard to Draco's behaviour. Certainly, it is not a way to build a good relationship between them. In fact, I'd argue that the reasoning you've outlined is exactly the sort of reasoning which says battered wives should forgive because "it will keep the peace or hold the family together, and after all, how can you want to make such a big deal of it now when he's always been like this..."

shamera @ May 3 2004, 14:28:32 UTC Re: Answering Lestrange

I think you are right that the reasoning you describe is wrong and counter-productive with regard to Draco's behaviour. Certainly, it is not a way to build a good relationship between them. In fact, I'd argue that the reasoning you've outlined is exactly the sort of reasoning which says battered wives should forgive because "it will keep the peace or hold the family together, and after all, how can you want to make such a big deal of it now when he's always been like this..."

Werd.

greenvarnish @ May 3 2004, 04:11:19 UTC off-topic, but...

I love how you keep adding edits to your entry when something new happens. Thank you sooo much. <3

ex_lev195 @ May 3 2004, 04:38:51 UTC Re: off-topic, but...

:)

dragynville @ May 3 2004, 05:17:32 UTC

Now he's going to send him an owl, and Draco's still not responding.

vassilissa @ May 3 2004, 07:22:05 UTC

He's sending it anyway.

loony_moony @ Deleted Deleted

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