notapipe @ April 24 2003, 18:21:21 UTC

Plus, Draco waited an hour for Harry! That's devotion for you.

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 18:23:02 UTC

For Draco this is something on the level with donating a kidney. And he's very delicate, you know.

notapipe @ April 24 2003, 18:25:35 UTC

Nor does he have a twin he can steal one from...

untiemybinds @ April 24 2003, 18:24:06 UTC

Oh, yes. Definately.

I <3 them.

flyingcarpet @ April 24 2003, 18:24:53 UTC

The two of them showing off for each other and then denying it is just *perfect.*

(of course, ps wasn't so much showing off as trying to cover up the fact that he got lost, but it still fits in the "trying to impress" category)

notapipe @ April 24 2003, 18:27:28 UTC

And Harry is bragging about his club...

non_inferno @ April 24 2003, 18:31:33 UTC

Where did that come from? It is obviously not anything suggestive, as Harry is far too innocent. Right?

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 18:34:47 UTC

I want to know about the hitting. LOL. Anklebiter.

eponis @ April 24 2003, 18:28:41 UTC

::points to icon and to comment, grins widely::

Agreed - definitely the cutest bickering since Sirius and Remus. They're so cute squabbling, and I can just see them shooting insults back and forth all evening.

Also, is it me, or was Harry and the snake really sweet, in a way? This is an ability of his that others generally find scary, but it's something that he wants to share with Draco. And Draco, in turn, was "morbidly interested" - the image of both of their faces, Harry intently talking to the snake and Draco interested despite himself, is just lovely.

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 18:33:12 UTC

I forgot to even mention that but it was definitely the best part of ps's post. Harry called a whole slew of snakes!! And kept telling Draco to watch!!!! Like a child doing gymnastics!!!

And Harry knew perfectly well that ps was trying to look disinterested when really he thought it was the coolest thing ever because it just is and anybody who disagrees is crazy. Like you said, it's all the more sweet because Draco wants to hear it when everybody else thinks it's bad. I wonder what Harry said to the snakes? I wonder if Harry will tell us in his journal. I wonder if Harry was just floating on air that Draco came and retrieved him after waiting for an hour...

cacklebang @ April 24 2003, 18:34:05 UTC

Have to give some love for the "anklebiter" comment.

notapipe @ April 24 2003, 18:37:16 UTC

Or preferably a lot.

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 18:39:52 UTC

Think Narcissa will get a clue as to what is bothering Draco? I mean, he's being so subtle about the changing of things without asking him what he wants...

luleh @ April 24 2003, 18:39:55 UTC

Hee!

They are so cute!

<33333333333333333333!!!!!

I spent all day hoping to come home to find a recap of lat night's events.

Yay!

neviachiel @ April 24 2003, 18:45:04 UTC

What's with the "It's getting dark now, but oh, there's a light? Hmm... am puzzled.

Anonymous @ April 24 2003, 18:49:46 UTC

I think they're making a reference to how people say that they see a tunnel of blinding light right before they die...

Isn't it cute how Harry and Draco seem to care for the other's health so much?

P.S. Hello! I've been a long-time lurker of both N_A and nRaged -- nice to meet you all! =D

neviachiel @ April 24 2003, 18:54:48 UTC

Maybe I'm too used to trying to read into things that they post, but it seemed odd that they said almost exactly the same thing. And when did this hit by golf club/hitting self with golf club incident happen anyway?

And it's erm, nice to meet you too. :)

fourscore @ April 24 2003, 18:56:46 UTC

I think Harry was mocking Draco for being melodramatic.

Anonymous @ April 24 2003, 18:58:03 UTC

Oh... I thought Harry was making a reference to the time when Blaise hit him while stealing the Golf pages...

neviachiel @ April 24 2003, 18:58:52 UTC Re:

Yes, :P thank you... I took another look at it and kinda hit myself on the head. Duh... :P

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 19:05:54 UTC

And the truth has come out. Draco ASKED Harry to talk to the snake!!! And then he got freaked out by it! God, he's so hyserical. Harry must find it so hard to not pinch his cheeks and then chase him down the hall hissing.

ex_meiko437 @ April 24 2003, 19:12:02 UTC

that would be a most interesting turn of events!

they really are beyond adorable together

notapipe @ April 24 2003, 19:28:55 UTC

Such a brilliant visual. Thank you.

sistermagpie @ April 24 2003, 19:39:38 UTC

DUDES!

Draco's defending Harry here, isn't he????? Encouraging Ron to stop being a jerk to him???

luleh @ April 24 2003, 19:56:28 UTC

Oooh!

Look like a defense to me, as only p_s would defend J_h in his "not really defending him, but i am....." way.

imochan @ April 24 2003, 19:40:42 UTC

Potterstinks is starting to give me flashes of Maya's Draco in UL. >:)))

All that "you HIT me! I'm DYING! Oh woe woe woe!"

So, where's there's smoke, there's fire, right? I mean, even if UL!Draco and UL!Harry haven't ... er ... well... DAMN, I lost that analogy quickly. -_-

oh well. <33333s anyway. Keep it up, you two. q^^p

bookshop @ April 24 2003, 19:54:31 UTC

Eh, well, for one thing, Potterstinks has been around longer than UL!Draco has, so if anything, UL!Draco should remind you of PS. Not that I think it should--after all, Maya's Draco is *not* the only other histrionic, hypochondriac characterisation of Draco around. Considering that it's a *canonical* characterisation I don't think it's really helpful to compare Potterstinks to UL!Draco because they're both two variations on a hundred similar themes. I mean, I could just as easily connect the dots between Underwater Light and Trilogy Dracos in terms of similarities and traits, but it would be pointless because so many people have been influenced by Cassie's Draco--he's shaped our fandom culture in so many ways it would be pointless to say where Cassie's characterization ends and another person's begins half the time. That's how I feel about PS as well: I really think he's one of the most canonical portrayals of Draco I've ever seen, and being canonical, you're bound to find traces of Potterstinks' style in many great fics.

$.02

imochan @ April 24 2003, 20:07:34 UTC

Well said. :D

*thumbs up* I agree with your comments are PS's canonical style; I suppose that's one of the things that makes him so damn popular (it is for me, at any rate). I suppose one could just say Potterstinks is Potterstinks, and leave it at that. ;)

moonlitpages @ April 24 2003, 22:01:41 UTC

Eep, many threads to wade through! Sorry if I'm restating what has been discussed countless times on other threads, but my brain is too fried at the moment to sort through them all just yet. I absolutely adore how Harry was bantering with Draco as confident and feisty as ever, and then Draco noticed when he was suddenly sullen and quiet, sought out the reason for it and jumped in to defend him. Well, not so much overtly defend him as attack the cause for the sudden end of their banter with vicious accuracy yet he was relatively subdued in comparison to his usual exchanges with Ron. And then, he attempted to revive the banter, brutally attractive icon and all! *grins madly* Of course, there always is a backlash to these things- I'm just waiting for PS to declare some kind of drastic 'I am not gay!' action to the world come tomorrow to counter all that Harry-time ;-).

Not to mention Hermione and Ron on the road to reconciliation while Harry and Ron's friendship falls apart yet again *sigh*. As much as I want to see those two(Ron and Harry) patch things up, I have to second PS's response because I had just been saying much the same things to kat99999 and making her wibble. I realise that Ron's issues are more about Harry spending time with Draco than him branching out in general, but I suppose all that time of watching Harry ignored in favour of Ron's relationship with Hermione has dulled my ability to sympathise with Ron much in the current situation (I'm allowed to be horribly bias if I want to, I make no claims not to be ;-) ).

Parseltongue, Fiesty!Harry and Protective!Draco, all in one night! Phew. I think I'm going to go have a lie down *grin*. I adore NA.

black_dog @ April 25 2003, 00:10:46 UTC

Ooh, nice detective work. I had been wondering why the JH/PS conversation turned sort of sour and hadn't even thought to compare the times on the two threads.

Did you also feel, maybe, that JH's "Well, you were," when he finally did answer PS was a little too petulant, not up to his usual standard of tact and playfulness? Poor JH is obviously feeling awful about Ron, and maybe even a little guilty about the time PS is taking away from Ron, though he's not willing to give it up.

And I think I love PS's "Sure, Potter. Whatever you'd like to hear." Not, what he'd like to "think," but what he'd like PS to say. It keeps up the previous teasing and denial, but it's about as close as PS can come, I think, to one of JH's famous neutral "Okay"'s.

moonlitpages @ April 25 2003, 06:30:22 UTC

*laughs* Well I too was wondering why it was taking J_H so long to respond all of a sudden, so I went looking on the other thread that had popped up out of curiosity, and behold! And hmm, yes, J_H was definitely quite deflated after that run in with Ron, but I liked that instead of just ignoring PS's further attempts to stretch out the conversation, he responded with that petulant little comment to signal that he was done. Usually it seems like it is PS ending their banter threads like so, and J_H wrapping up with an "okay". I liked the turnabout on this one, and you're right, "Sure, Potter. Whatever you'd like to hear." is rather like a PS version of it. Because PS, after all, would never say in one word what he can say in seven ;-)

nefeleo @ April 25 2003, 00:33:48 UTC

Very, very nice detective work. Thank you!

sistermagpie @ April 25 2003, 07:27:08 UTC

See, this is why I love this group. I had noticed this, but only from the opposite angle. The two together are pretty great.

I was reading the thread with Ron and wibbling over how unreasonable he was being. You can see Harry first just not letting him get away with his little dig about Harry having "better things to do." Then Harry goes the step further again and asks if he wants to read Quidditch magazines. Ron blows him off and Harry just says, "Oh."

When I was reading that I wondered if this would drive Harry back to the ps thread and it did! Harry could easily have left that thread with ps's last line about not seeing anybody else speak Parseltongue. Going back with his "guess so" was, as you say, more Harry just signalling his change of mood. It's important not just because ps picks up on it (unlike so many people the past months), investigates it and tries to do something about it (in a way that for ps is downright self-sacrificing--pointing out that Harry apologized etc.) but because upon feeling badly Harry seeks out ps to feel better. Not because ps is kind like, say, Ginny would be, but, I suspect, because he really does get a lift from ps's dramatics. I think Harry really is beginning to speak ps (an even harder language than Parseltongue!) so can appreciate his way of showing concern. I guess M.B. put it pretty well to Colin: "I'm so sorry you come from a planet where friends don't make fun of each other."

moonlitpages @ April 25 2003, 09:45:05 UTC

When I was reading that I wondered if this would drive Harry back to the ps thread and it did! Harry could easily have left that thread with ps's last line about not seeing anybody else speak Parseltongue. Going back with his "guess so" was, as you say, more Harry just signalling his change of mood. It's important not just because ps picks up on it (unlike so many people the past months), investigates it and tries to do something about it (in a way that for ps is downright self-sacrificing--pointing out that Harry apologized etc.) but because upon feeling badly Harry seeks out ps to feel better.

Oo, I like that reading of it as well. I think this exchange was significant for both characters in different ways. Before I had been focusing on the significance of PS jumping in on the thread with Ron, but you're right, it is also significant for Harry in that instead of just wandering off disheartened by Ron's behavior, he does return to the conversation with Draco. If you look at the times, there was a long pause where it seemed as if Harry had dropped the conversation, and it was only after Harry responded with the sullen "Guess not", that PS jumped in on the other thread. It seems as if his coming back to the conversation with PS was, like you pointed out, a way of seeking him out to feel better, and it was also PS's signal that he should do something about it.

Not because ps is kind like, say, Ginny would be, but, I suspect, because he really does get a lift from ps's dramatics.

And also, instead of being comforting like say Ginny or Hermione as I doubt Draco really has any experience in consoling or anything of the like, he tries to help the best way he knows how- by going on the offensive against Ron, and then making playful little snarks to try and revive the lighthearted banter of before but when he fails, he relents.

Also, as you mentioned in a comment below, Btw, I also just realized it's kind of amazing that Draco let Ron get in the last word in their discussion. Doesn't Draco usually enjoy taunting Ron until he backs off? I think he's learning from Harry.

I also liked to see it as PS deciding that he had more important things to do, ie= try to talk to Harry. The reason he became involved with commenting to Ron in the first place was Harry, and not his own personal vendetta for once. One could read it as his putting Harry above his wanting to get another dig in at Ron, which is a huge step. But again, I'm probably just horribly bias *coughs*.

flyby @ April 24 2003, 23:24:32 UTC

Hmm. Anyone else notice that potterstinks didn't use his 'I have a shapely girlfriend' icon at all during that little conversation with just_harry? He used it to his mother though... Now I shall have to go compile a record of the exchange including Draco's icon captions.

eponis @ April 25 2003, 01:29:21 UTC

I did notice that - also, did you notice that he used it in his "You're changing things without even asking me what I want!" complaint, with reference to whatever-has-been-bothering-him-recently? Definitely part of that is pure jealousy that His Mother and Father aren't pampering him as much as usual, but I wonder if he's also complaining about them pushing him into having a girlfriend?

moonlitpages @ April 25 2003, 06:01:34 UTC

It disturbs me that Draco uses his "I am brutally attractive" icon with his mother, though. *snickers* I don't even want to analyze that ;-) heh.

sistermagpie @ April 25 2003, 07:34:46 UTC

I think Narcissa's changed a lot more than the not-pampering thing. In fact, she hasn't really changed that at all. I think he's referring to Narcissa changing the whole unhealthy way the family works. Remember this whole thing is ostensibly about her saying Lucius treats Draco badly and that's what Draco doesn't want to deal with. The split with Lucius is clearly really about Narcissa taking control of her own life and I don't think Draco is ready to do that himself. That he didn't answer her question about what he wanted just has so many implications. First, he doesn't want to even acknowledge the split between his parents so he can't talk about that. Second, I think he thinks Narcissa should know this already and he shouldn't have to tell her. And third, well, what ps wants is probably exactly the thing that Narcissa and Lucius would never give him. Even the new robes make a sad symbol for that--she got him robes, but they're puce. They're not what he wants. And they were Pansy's choice as well.

Btw, I also just realized it's kind of amazing that Draco let Ron get in the last word in their discussion. Doesn't Draco usually enjoy taunting Ron until he backs off? I think he's learning from Harry.

moonlitpages @ April 25 2003, 09:57:22 UTC

Yes, exactly. When I read that remark, You're changing things without even asking me what I want!, I read it as referring to much more than just the package delivery. I think PS is frustrated at the situation in general, especially as you said, that Narcissa is changing the way their family has always worked. I think Draco is chaffed that Narcissa is doing this on his behalf (also for hers, but the basic issue behind here initial departure was Lucius' treatment of Draco) without consulting him. Much like the robes, where she decides that 'mummy knows best' and ignoring his input completely. I think for Draco, it would be easier to keep the status quo because I get the feeling he is used to being treated this way by his father. It's just the way it's always been, so he doesn't see it as anything unjust or unusual, and copes with it by pretending it hasn't happened until it resolves. I think Narcissa is probably going to take the brunt of his unhappiness in this situation because she is the one changing things and making Draco have to acknowledge a situation he would rather ignore because of it.

sistermagpie @ April 25 2003, 10:19:08 UTC

Also, this might even bring up bigger issues. For 16 years Narcissa's been his mother and presumably taught him to be the way he is. For her to suddenly decide the Lucius is being unfair may rock Draco's world a little more than she knows. The main way Draco deals with Lucius' treatment is to believe that it is correct and good and Narcissa is part of that. For her to suddenly, when he is 16, start telling him that his feelings matter, that sometimes Lucius is just being cruel, that rebelling against Lucius is a good thing...this could be incredibly frightening for ps. He made his choice long ago to try to win Lucius' approval and this was a bad choice because he'll never really get it. The little scraps he gets thrown have sustained him, though. He may see Narcissa's sudden pleas to Lucius to back off as proof that he can't measure up ever.

After the duel Draco obviously did try to do what Lucius wanted by challenging Terry again. He may see Narcissa's behavior as doing absolutely nothing for him but making Lucius angrier at him. In fact, Lucius has hinted as much, talking about how Draco needs his mummy etc. Lucius' main criticism of Draco here is that he isn't a man and Narcissa, unwittingly or not, continues to be the one to treat him like a child, calling him baby names, buying him robes he thinks are foolish, saying how he needs her protection. Meanwhile she's also left the house and so disrupted his whole life.

Anonymous @ April 25 2003, 16:01:28 UTC

http://www.livejournal.com/users/blondenarcissa/10749.html?thread=49917#t49917

Pansy, has figured the problem out. She posted this in response to Narcissa's post about the burnt tart shells.

notapipe @ April 25 2003, 08:43:00 UTC

This made me notice something in the icon analysis.

(To set the stage, they are talking about when they found the snake in the grass and Harry speaking Parseltounge)
potterstinks: I am brutally attractive
just_harry: Well, you were.

Just cool, is all.