metaphoracle @ April 2 2003, 06:15:31 UTC

Somehow I doubt that Severus would allow himself to look ridiculous all for the sake of making Harry nervous.

I'm rather content to read Snape's Plagarism post at face value. The man has been wracking his brain trying to figure out what Harry is plotting and his paranoia has led him to this conclusion--the only one he can find evidence for. And vague, easily disproveable evidence at that.

I like to think Sevvie has a bit more self respect. Passionately blinded by his desire to see Harry in trouble, but still having self respect. Then again, he did shag Sirius . . .

milenalupin @ April 2 2003, 07:00:58 UTC

*feels reminded of Severus' Potter Paranoia in Prisoner Of Azkaban (after Sirius escaped from that locked tower room) and in Goblet of Fire ("The egg, the map and I")*

weatherby @ April 2 2003, 15:43:11 UTC

Exactly, I agree with you completely. Snape is insane about Harry, but a lot of the fandom seems to forget that and thinks Snape is just extremely smooth and sneaky. He is sneaky, but he really isn't all that smooth about it. I also don't see why Snape would be obsessed with knowing about Harry's love life. When Snape says he thinks Harry is doing something, he thinks Harry is going to break the rules and get rewarded for it, like he always does. This is the man who threatened to put Veritaserum in a student's drink, after all!

bookshop @ April 2 2003, 06:51:27 UTC

speaking of psychological torture, WHAT DIDN'T WORK?!

black_dog @ April 2 2003, 07:04:24 UTC

Perhaps, an earlier formula for removing "algae" stains?

altricial @ April 2 2003, 07:20:29 UTC

I think it is a present. A muggle present. Electric toothbrush? It's something like that, I swear. MAN WHERE IS THAT POST

sistermagpie @ April 2 2003, 07:26:31 UTC

Thank you! I'm dying here to know that too!

I think Snape is sort of chasing his own tail here trying to figure out what on earth is going on with Potter. The meeting with Dumbledore might be interesting, though. I think Harry is showing the book to Dumbledore just to clear his name, knowing that Dumbledore is a much more objective person to judge him than Snape. But surely Dumbledore might ask about everything else...?

Oh, a little OT but you guys are the only people who will appreciate this at all. I was working with my writing partner last night and we were writing this scene where we were trying to describe what a character was covered in after jumping in a moat--it's not seaweed, lichen (if that's even a word) would never fit the vocab level. So I break into a grin and start giggling, "Algae! He's covered in algae!" And she's just staring at me, like, "Algae is funny? Why is algae funny? I don't think it should be algae." And I just had to say, "Um, long story." We went with pond scum, btw.

imochan @ April 2 2003, 07:48:10 UTC

Oh my god, thank you! It's not just me who's been convulsing over that DAMN COMMENT!! *flails*

*ticks off possible "non-work"ing things* quidditch tips, secret passageways, a prank on a teacher, cheating on a test, reviving dead flobberworms, argh! i don't know! gay sex tips, cures for banana allergies...?? *collapses*

do you think he actually might have given potterstinks a present? ^_^

sistermagpie @ April 2 2003, 07:54:49 UTC

I wondered if he wasn't referring to something Harry was trying to do. Like, "You know, commenting without a picture doesn't make you seem unique," or something like that.

Who am I kidding? I have no idea what he means. Neither does Harry, it seems...

anamirza @ April 2 2003, 08:20:56 UTC

I thought it was referring to Harry's making nice comments in Draco's journal. But I have no idea really and of course *I'm dying to know*!

"psychological torture" indeed...

moonlitpages @ April 2 2003, 09:53:13 UTC

De-lurking a bit to showcase my obsessive-ness here ;-) (since I have been pondering this question since the original post, don't mind me *cough*). I always thought that it was referring to a present Harry got Draco, especially due to his comment in this entry a few days before Christmas:

So far I've received one Christmas present, which wasn't from My Parents, as Father and Mother like to wait until Christmas Day. It had a horrible wrapping job, which isn't surprising in the least, so I've made a point to make the elves wrap mine two or three times each until they get it absolutely perfect.

He never mentioned who this present was from or what it was. I'd be willing to bet a heck of a lot that this mystery badly wrapped present was from Harry *grin*. Maybe whatever it was didn't work...*is reaching, I know*

anamirza @ April 2 2003, 10:32:11 UTC

Ooh, good catch! I have to go back and read things more carefully - I'd completely forgotten about that comment.

Hmmm.

sistermagpie @ April 2 2003, 11:34:43 UTC

And it's so great to go back and read that again just for Draco flying around the ballroom.

Badly wrapped? That does sound like Harry to me.

bookshop @ April 2 2003, 12:49:49 UTC

really? i think it totally, totally sounds like harry :D

wheeee, so glad someone found quote!

sistermagpie @ April 2 2003, 18:33:46 UTC

Oh yeah, I said it DOES sound just like Harry. I can't think of a single other person it could be!

sistermagpie @ April 2 2003, 18:36:26 UTC

Ooh, and you know what sounds even more like Harry? That he wrapped the present beautifully (as he was forced to do with Dudley's presents) and Draco described it as badly wrapped anyway.:-)

imochan @ April 2 2003, 13:48:05 UTC

Eeee! Nice sleuth work! *_* I think we all agree the bad wrapping job sounds like JH, so what do you think the present was...?

moonlitpages @ April 2 2003, 14:15:36 UTC

hmm...well, assuming the "it doesn't work" comment pertains to the present, then it might have been something that was supposed to do something. In which case the possibilities are endless... Or perhaps PS simply meant that trying to win him over with cute presents won't work? *laughs* But PS did possibly give him the potions book in return anyway. ...Maybe JH gave him the Marauder's Map so they could have secret rendezvous and cuddle over Potions homework? *cough*

imochan @ April 2 2003, 15:06:57 UTC

Maybe JH gave him the Marauder's Map so they could have secret rendezvous and cuddle over Potions homework?

*squees at you* yes, yes, yes! Ah, just let me keep that picture in my head for a while. *floats away*

black_dog @ April 2 2003, 07:00:40 UTC

Somehow I doubt that Severus would allow himself to look ridiculous all for the sake of making Harry nervous.

Oh I don't know, I think Snape has very little choice about making himself look ridiculous!

I kind of like servalan's notion that Snape has some sort of ulterior motive here. For one thing, he can't possibly be that dense about what Harry and Sirius have in common, so at least that part of his post is disingenuous.

But if he does know the whole truth, I think his tactics would be shaped in part by a desire to protect Potterstinks. So, he's maybe misdirecting people who would look at j_h's algae posts and wonder what's up between JH and PS. Reading the stilted language of JH's essay, the plagiarism charge isn't totally ridiculous, but the use of the algae posts as a supporting example is.

So, the weak points of Snape's message have to do with what JH has in common with Sirius, and with why JH is writing to PS. It's the H/D connection that's making him nervous, and he wants to change the subject! Maybe.

Any thoughts on why JH will show the book to Dumbledore and not to Snape? Does it have an inscription, maybe?

delirieuse @ April 2 2003, 07:08:50 UTC

(re: inscription) Maybe...

Then again, maybe he's just afraid Snape will confiscate/destroy the evidence.

conversant @ April 2 2003, 07:29:54 UTC

That was my conclusion. He didn't want the book to be confiscated by Snape, who might then assert it never existed. I must say that I'm amused by the definition of plagiarism that everyone at Hogwarts (including Snape) seems to be using. It seems that McGonagall, Snape, Sirius and Lupin agree that it would be okay for JH to draw information from a book without citing the source as long as he doesn't use its exact words. (!!??!!) Perhaps this is the way secondary schools handle research. (I do remember using encyclopedias as reference materials, probably without crediting those sources in my papers... but that was in primary school.)

In my world, the author of an academic essay must cite the source (author, title, publishing info, and page reference) of any specialized information or interpretive ideas she draws from outside sources. If she borrows exact wording, she must put quotation marks around the borrowed words in addition to citing the source. In my world, JH would, in fact, have violated the standards of academic citation when he drew information from a book without including a footnote to credit that source each time he relies on it for information or ideas.

My guess is that he probably owes a footnote to potterstinks for help with his analysis in the paper, but that's another issue altogether. (Does NA!Snape forbid students to study together or collaborate on projects? If not, JH's in the right on this score; I don't think PS wrote the essay. I do suspect that PS helped in its planning stages.)

delirieuse @ April 2 2003, 08:27:57 UTC

Actually, that's true; however, I don't recall the students *ever* having to write a bibliography even in canon. Hmm.

(And I'm a uni student, I know the citation rules. I even put [...] and so forth when quoting in my journal for crying out loud. 9_9 I'm such a geek. :D)

metaphoracle @ April 2 2003, 08:37:32 UTC

The paranoia about plagarism runs wild here at my uni . . . But these are high school students. What high school student didn't paraphrase from a textbook or article without citing it? It's only as you grow older that the panic of OMG how do I write an original essay when I know nothing on the subject in the first place and thus, my opinions are shaped by everything that I read.

I think the essay is a fine example of what a 16 year old would write. And that Snape's accusations of plagarism, although possibly founded, are meant to be ridiculous to an educated audience.

Who would really accuse a 16 year old of plagarism over a few poorly paraphrased phrases? I mean, who thinks a 16 year old's essay to be that important?

Answer: A paranoid delusional somewhat obsessive Potions Master who's spent way too much time in the dungeons.

I agree with Lupercus. Snape needs a hobby. How about sex? I wonder if Remus would volunteer to, er, "partner" Sevvie . . .

delirieuse @ April 2 2003, 08:47:50 UTC

*shudder* Bad mental images of sex while Snape's boiling potion ingredients...

Bibliographies were pretty important at my second high school... but admittedly it wasn't a "include a bibliography or we'll accuse you of cheating" but a "bibliographies are worth part of your mark for this essay".

weatherby @ April 2 2003, 15:58:06 UTC

In my high school we only had to include bibliographies in our final papers of the year--the sort of mini essays that were given out on a semi-regular basis were not a big deal, so it wasn't necessary. I am certain every school does it differently, but I imagine Snape wouldn't really need to require it if he's assigning directly from the text.

delirieuse @ April 2 2003, 21:48:16 UTC

*Nods* That's also true. My school, admittedly, was one fixated on academic performance - it was selective entry, and about 90% of its students go to the same uni; supposedly the "best" uni in the state. about 98% of its students go to uni, full stop.

conversant @ April 2 2003, 07:37:12 UTC

I like the idea of an inscription, but if servalan is correct, JH wouldn't worry about Snape seeing it. If JH knows that Snape knows about a D/H relationship, then an inscription would be immaterial. -- Except that it would increase the likelihood of Snape's confiscating the book -- not only to do away with JH's only supporting evidence, but also to burn it in a defilement-cleansing ritual meant to free PS of JH's taint.

I'm eager to see how this Snape thread plays out. I think we are likely to get answers about Snape's knowledge and motivations even as we wait and wait to get a clear picture of what's up between JH and PS.