Anonymous @ March 30 2004, 13:41:50 UTC

I didn't read that as anything about Harry and Draco. I took it to mean that they had to take the usual Anti-DE Safety Precautions for Harry.

snowballjane @ March 30 2004, 14:19:48 UTC

I was assuming full moon fell somewhere during easter break.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 14:54:37 UTC

I hadn't even thought of that, which I guess is a really a pretty obvious possibility. But I wonder if he'd bother to be euphemistic about the transformation thing -- he's pretty straightforward about it at other times, and you'd think he'd just come out and say it, if that was the issue.

I guess it sounds to me, a little, as if he's politely laying down a marker for a potentially awkward conversation. He "doesn't need to spell it out," -- at least here on the journals -- yet it calls for a "discussion" when they get together. I could be totally off the mark, but the emphasis is odd and makes me think it's some kind of significant hint. We shall see!

athene_51 @ March 30 2004, 16:51:08 UTC

"I don't think I need to spell it out for anyone."

Oh, but you're wrong, Remus. Spell it out for us!

I guess it sounds to me, a little, as if he's politely laying down a marker for a potentially awkward conversation.

That's what I thought, too. It definitely seems like a hint at a bigger issue of some kind. Whether that's the fact that it's dangerous for them to travel, or hard for Remus given his leg, or something relationship-related, no idea. Fun to speculate, though! It gets even more interesting when points 1 and 2 from your post are considered.

Anonymous @ March 30 2004, 15:38:02 UTC

Or he's just referring to his leg.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 16:56:36 UTC

Could be. But as I read the post, he's making a special trip to Hogwarts to discuss it with Harry and Sirius.

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 17:57:47 UTC

For my vote, I thought he was talking about DEs and was coming to Hogwarts to discuss it with Dumbledore.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 18:41:04 UTC

Including all the latest secret intelligence from Narcissa's post and/or visit! ;)

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 18:54:08 UTC

The South of France, eh? Cannes, perhaps? I still think Remus is worried about Harry's happiness re: Draco. I can't imagine that he could be oblivious to its importance to Harry, even though it has to be mostly unspoken on the journals. Despite all the other issues on Remus' mind, it could very well be an issue in his planning. And politically, too, I suspect Remus is not indifferent to Draco's fate.

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 18:58:02 UTC

*looks suspiciously at Remus' new shop assistant, Gavin, who is just a bit older than Harry.*

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 18:59:27 UTC

First Seamus, now Remus . . . can't they see that the boy is in mourning??

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 19:08:54 UTC

'E's not dead! 'E's not!!

Draco, you've got an apparting license. Elope with Harry on Good Friday and the world will know he's yours.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 19:19:03 UTC

Now that sounds like a plan!

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 19:30:41 UTC

Well, jeez, what's the license for, anyway?

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 20:39:48 UTC

. . . and Harry makes it clear that the "South of France" means the coast, and not, say, the interior of Provence.

tabiji @ March 30 2004, 21:18:26 UTC

But dude, France is still France! It's totally apparatable!

*hopeful*

black_dog @ March 31 2004, 09:25:49 UTC

Oh these guys are far too proud to apparate to one another at this point! But if they happened to run into each other at the beach . . .

dragynville @ March 30 2004, 20:16:46 UTC

BEST PLAN EVER!! :D

tabiji @ March 30 2004, 21:01:06 UTC

Oh. God. Yes. Very. Suspicious.

Maybe Gavin is incredibly good-looking, gay, and will take an interest in Harry? Jealousy is a great motivator - it could kick Draco into action. Or it could cause him to just walk away completely. *wibble*

Then again, Remus' shop isn't exactly a secret. Could Gavin be a DE infiltrator? I don't think they'd necessarily recruit Squibs, but they could have some as spies/informants/etc. *double wibble*

sistermagpie @ March 31 2004, 16:57:55 UTC

I kind of thought Gavin was somebody Lupin was going to help or mentor or something. He's a squib, so he's a minority; Lupin's a werewolf, so he's a minority. Both bravely and cheerfully deal with discrimination etc.

hated_and_loved @ March 30 2004, 19:19:26 UTC

Is Draco's party supposed to be held at Cannes?

In light of his troubles with Sirius, it's difficult to say what Remus would prefer: that Harry move on, or that he try to make up with Draco. Obviously, he wants Harry to be happy above all else, but if he thought the relationship wasn't making Harry happy? That, maybe, being with Draco wasn't the best thing for him? Remus did, after all, make the decision to leave Sirius, despite loving him to bits. Now that he and Sirius seem to be mending their relationship, though, he might be more apt to suggest Harry do the same. Thoughts?

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 19:28:25 UTC

Hmmm...I think up until now Sirius and Remus have been pretty hands-off where it came to Harry's love life and that that was a very smart thing to do. I sort of feel like the less meddling the better, from Harry's pov.

If he was going to talk to one of them, I almost wish it were Sirius as the f***-up rather than Remus, who may feel he's been in Harry's place before. Harry's situation with ps just doesn't really seem like the one between Remus and Sirius that much. I can't really say how R&S patched things up. They seem to be a couple again, with Sirius sleeping over and leaving his shoes behind, but we don't know any details. I feel like Sirius just got sent off to obediance school so now he's allowed back in the house.:-)

So I don't know...it seems like it would be a big change for these two to decide to get involved here. I mean...I think it's always tricky to decide that something isn't making someone happy, especially a relationship as private as this one. On the surface anybody could have said a year ago that this relationship wouldn't make Harry happy, but it does.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 20:21:14 UTC

I don't know, it's hard to argue from silence in NA! But I wonder if they've really been so hands-off, just because Harry has been taking so many risks over Draco -- I have trouble believing he wouldn't seek advice or that they would leave him to work it out entirely on his own.

My own concern about Sirius is that he obviously despises Draco and might not be able to be fair about things. On the other hand, Sirius knows a thing or two about obviously unsuitable relationships, and also about sabotaging them because of one's own irrational issues, so perhaps he could offer some insight into PS' behavior. :)

BTW, I guess I've been avoiding the issue of whether R and S have actually patched things up. I suspect they're in more of a trial stage, living separately, now occasionally visiting one another. I wonder if this vacation is their first experiment in extended time together, since the breakup?

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 20:50:37 UTC

My own concern about Sirius is that he obviously despises Draco and might not be able to be fair about things. On the other hand, Sirius knows a thing or two about obviously unsuitable relationships, and also about sabotaging them because of one's own irrational issues, so perhaps he could offer some insight into PS' behavior. :)

Yes, that's what I meant. Sirius wouldn't be a person talking about whether Harry should "work things out" with ps, imo, but he could be a guy talking about his experiences. Knowing that Sirius despises Draco would, I think, prevent Harry from ever framing things in those terms to him.

BTW, I guess I've been avoiding the issue of whether R and S have actually patched things up. I suspect they're in more of a trial stage, living separately, now occasionally visiting one another. I wonder if this vacation is their first experiment in extended time together, since the breakup?

I have a hard time imagining a coherent life for them outside of postings.

I think that's a great point -- that Remus of all people knows you can want too badly for something to work. It raises a fascinating question of Remus' own character, because however heartbroken he may have been by his failure with Sirius, I don't see Remus ever becoming a cynic about love.

Well, like I said when it was going on, I don't think I saw Remus wanting things to work too badly in the same way that you did, and I can't imagine Harry getting things to work with ps the way Remus did with Sirius. Harry and Remus seem like very different personalities, fundamentally.

hated_and_loved @ March 30 2004, 20:25:12 UTC

I agree with you about Remus's general policy of noninvolvement as far as Harry's relationship with Draco goes, but if Harry did come to him for advice (which, granted, would be unusual, given Harry's stubborn independence at most times), I'm just not sure which way Remus would lean. In all likelihood, he would probably try to remain as neutral as he could, saying that if Harry thinks Draco is worth the effort and that a reconciliation is possible, then he should try to repair the damage.

I imagine Sirius might tell him he's better off without him, though.

I wonder if Sirius has accepted that the breakup of his own relationship was entirely his fault. His recent posts about growing old and slowing down have been pretty hopeful, actually. I'd like to think that he's maturing (at last!) and that the idea of spending "boring" quality time with Remus (no more adventurous sex, I fear) is becoming more appealing to him. I really hope so.

It's been clear for a few months that Remus and Sirius were on good terms again, what with Remus talking here and there about his "family" in glowing terms. I couldn't say for sure whether they're actually sleeping together or not (despite this most recent overnight stay), but the two are couple-y in all other respects.

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 20:38:33 UTC

I imagine Sirius might tell him he's better off without him, though.

Sure, but I don't think that's the question Harry would be asking, necessarily. I don't really think Harry should go to either of them for advice, but Sirius seems like he could have a plain talk about his experiences without it being about how Harry should handle Draco. Sirius in general doesn't give advice, and we know he hates Draco, and he's not tightly bound to Draco's mother, so he seems safer that way.

I wonder if Sirius has accepted that the breakup of his own relationship was entirely his fault.

I can't imagine Remus would welcome him back if he didn't, which doesn't really seem like Sirius to me, but it seems like that's what happened.

hated_and_loved @ March 30 2004, 21:07:58 UTC

Oh, I forgot about the whole Narcissa factor. Though it seems she and Remus have really grown apart lately, which is a whole separate issue ...

I don't really believe Harry will ask either of them for advice, but a general talk about relationships with one or both of them seems inevitable. I know blackdog mentioned this jokingly, but Sirius did sabotage his marriage; maybe he really can help Harry come to grips with Draco's insecurities (in a very generalized, not-actually-mentioning-Draco-at-all kind of way).

tabiji @ March 30 2004, 21:15:40 UTC

(in a very generalized, not-actually-mentioning-Draco-at-all kind of way)

Yea, I can see that as how the conversations would go with either Remus or Sirius (but especially Sirius). I'm not a 17/18 year old boy, but I don't think this is the kind of thing most guys would talk to their parents about. I'm thinking no matter how cool they are, it would be excruciatingly embarassing to discuss your love/sex life with your parents!

sistermagpie @ March 30 2004, 21:16:27 UTC

Sure--for that matter he could maybe give him insight on feeling like you're considered a horrible person, which was where he was coming from before.

black_dog @ March 30 2004, 20:10:06 UTC

I think that's a great point -- that Remus of all people knows you can want too badly for something to work. It raises a fascinating question of Remus' own character, because however heartbroken he may have been by his failure with Sirius, I don't see Remus ever becoming a cynic about love.

He had a wonderful remark back around the time of the wedding, when Harry asked for guarantees and Remus said there are no guarantees, but we're going to try our best. I think Remus might well caution Harry about the risks of trying to love someone who isn't equal to it, might probe him to see whether he's being realistic about the possibility of failure. But I don't see Remus actually discouraging Harry from trying, as long as Harry feels there's hope.

And I wonder how much he'd even second-guess Harry, if he disagreed with him -- knowing how difficult relationships may look terrible from the outside, while they still have plenty of life in them.

I guess bottom line, I see Remus as almost the ideal person to help Harry talk through and think through his feelings about Draco, and as someone whose experience would lead him not to try to impose his own preferences. That's why I really hope Remus has been watching and thinking about the relationship, and that he and Harry have some quality time to consider it together.

hated_and_loved @ March 30 2004, 21:37:47 UTC

I've been thinking about this, and I believe you're right: even before this reconciliation-of-sorts between Remus and Sirius, I don't think Remus would ever tell Harry to give up and move on. And with this Easter vacation coming up, they'll have a good opportunity to talk this out. Remus has given Sirius his share (arguably more than his share) of understanding and forgiveness, which could certainly help Harry deal with Draco. The problems that H/D have are based on insecurity, mainly (apart from that pesky Montague/Capulet thing they have going on), and if Harry can learn to understand and calm Draco's fears, the two of them will have a much better chance.

I still think it might be helpful to get into a general discussion about relationships with Sirius, though; get the other side of the argument, if you will. Not advice, per se, just ... talking.

pyrae @ March 30 2004, 21:29:13 UTC

Speaking of hints of danger, there's also this comment of Snape's, telling Harry there are "things [he needs] to learn, and quickly." Of course, he could just be talking about the end of Harry's schooling approaching, but that seems rather uncharacteristic of Snape.

black_dog @ March 31 2004, 09:33:31 UTC

Yeah, I like that comment -- for the way it shows Snapes "protective" side as well as the way it adds to a sense of menace. But what is it, I wonder, that Harry needs to learn, after already facing and defeating Voldemort?

darththalia @ March 31 2004, 23:20:18 UTC

Hang on... Voldemort's dead in this game? I thought Lucius referred to him fairly often, however obliquely. Harry has got away from Voldemort a bunch of times, but I wouldn't say he's "defeated" him.

black_dog @ April 1 2004, 02:32:56 UTC

Where are you all getting the idea that I suggested V was dead? See next comment. :)

moony @ April 1 2004, 02:14:43 UTC

Voldemort is not dead in NA.

black_dog @ April 1 2004, 02:31:30 UTC

I know that! :) "Defeating" can mean a tactical victory, not necessarily a final one. H drove V off from the attack at Hogwarts by stealing his wand, ending the attack and limiting the damage. Not to mention the confrontations in canon. He's proven himself not hopelessly outclassed, and generally victorious, in skirmishes with Voldemort.

Basically, I was accusing Snape of melodrama. Sure, Harry could learn more, and better control his ego, etc. etc., but I guess my question is whether Snape's condescension is fully merited.

darththalia @ April 1 2004, 18:03:46 UTC

I still think "defeating" is a bit of an exaggeration. And I think Harry probably does still have quite a bit to learn. But of course Snape is overdoing it--he's completely unreasonable when it comes to Harry. I'd love to know whether any of it is part of his act, or if he really hates Harry that much.

black_dog @ April 1 2004, 19:10:32 UTC

Fair enough! I won't quibble over the word if I could have used a better one. As for Snape, I think we know that he thinks Harry's ego is a bit out of control, that he needs more discipline and the humility to learn things, so I think he was playing the tough uncle here -- and yet I do think a genuine concern for Harry came out, behind the exaggerated solemnity.

Interesting also that Harry was not actually disrespectful of Potions in his previous remark. He made a point that has some validity -- that people specialize in different things, that potions is maybe too important to do in a half-skilled way, so you don't pretend to do so, and rely instead on experts. So maybe there's a little mellowing on both Snape and Harry's part in this exchange.

black_dog @ April 1 2004, 02:40:39 UTC

OK, I'm rereading my comment, and I see how it could be read the way you did -- except that, as you say, V is obviously not dead and I didn't consider it would be taken that way. Maybe I should have said "bested" or "held his own against."