bubblebee @ April 29 2004, 06:43:45 UTC

And wonder if the sins of the father will be visited upon the son

Hrm, I wonder if he feels somewhat bad about this?

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 06:46:56 UTC

I find the mention of sin to be interesting, especially in conjunction with the title of the song (Gethsemane, for those who are wondering, is a garden upon the Mount of Olives, wherein Jesus was arrested by the Jews, and Peter sliced off the ear of a slave) considering Jesus was to die for the sins of mankind.

And Lucius is in the garden...

:-S

bubblebee @ April 29 2004, 06:48:34 UTC

GAH! I knew that Gethsemane was the garden... and I read that Lucius was in the garden... it just didn't piece together.
*wibble*

oconel @ April 29 2004, 06:55:00 UTC

The reference to the kiss fits there too.

xnera @ April 29 2004, 07:20:55 UTC

Yes. Yes, it does.

So Lucius is in the role of Jesus here, staying awake in the garden. And he knows that he is about to be betrayed. The question is, who is doing the betrayal? Narcissa or Draco? I forget, was Judas one of the apostles sleeping while Jesus was praying in the garden? If so, that would lead me to believe that Narcissa may be the one doing the betraying, as she is currently at the Manor and Draco is not.

Jesus was betrayed by Judas; the crowed chose Jesus, setting Barabbas free; Jesus died on the cross, only to rise again in three days. Is Lucius going to die, only to "rise again"? Voldemort has certainly come back from "death"; Lucius could as well. And wasn't Lucius likening himself to Pilate earlier?

So, is someone going to offer Lucius to be killed in Draco's place? Narcissa, perhaps? Then Draco is Barrabas in this case (and yeah, I'm not sure how to spell his name; you'd think I'd know with 17 years of Catholic schooling). Barabas is rumored to be a theif, a murderer, and an insurrectionist". So what did Draco kill and steal?

I am so very impressed with the players right now. And I wish I understood what this all means. *runs off to read up on Barabas some more*

xnera @ April 29 2004, 07:21:31 UTC

And I forgot to close that link. d'oh.

oconel @ April 29 2004, 07:27:42 UTC

I'm almost sure that the apostles sleeping were Peter and John.

Why should be Lucius be under a trial? Because of Draco?

xnera @ April 29 2004, 07:49:20 UTC

Why should be Lucius be under a trial? Because of Draco?

Hmm. I'm not seeing it as Lucius being on trial. I think it might go something like this: Draco is to get the Dark Mark, but he refuses. Voldemort wants to kill Draco, but Lucius offers himself up instead, perhaps saying something like he's obviously failed in his duties to raise Draco as a proper little DE. Voldemort goes ahead and kills Lucius.

Now, the following is very wild speculation.

I like to think of my Lucius as being evil. Or at least very much a Slytherin: cunning, desirous of power, etc. Narcissa, too.

Draco is Barabas, who is a "theif, murderer, and insurrectionist". If Lucius is evil, then he could see Draco (who is possibly good) as a threat. Draco has killed Lucius' dream of a DE son, and has shown signs of revolting against Lucius and all Lucius believes in. Now, you would think Lucius would be alright with Voldemort killing Draco to get Draco out of the way, but Lucius has other plans for Draco (what, I don't know).

Lucius instead takes Draco's place, acting in the role of Jesus. He allows himself to be killed, because he's already planned to come back, as Jesus was risen from the dead. I mean, Voldemort was raised from the "dead" several times; why not Lucius? And the way I'm imagining it, Lucius will come back with extra power or something, so he can overthrow Voldemort and rule things his way. As Narcissa says, "I do believe that the tide shall soon be changing.", which to me sounds like the ushering in of a new power.

Yeah, like I said, very wild speculation. But fun.

The only problem I see with this is scenario is Voldemort agreeing to kill Draco in Lucius' place.

oconel @ April 29 2004, 07:53:16 UTC

The only problem I see with this is scenario is Voldemort agreeing to kill Draco in Lucius' place.

Maybe Draco has already said that he's not going back home. In that case Voldemort only could kill Lucius or attack Hogwarts.

vassilissa @ April 29 2004, 08:00:49 UTC

but Lucius has other plans for Draco (what, I don't know).

Maybe he'll snatch Draco's body.

oconel @ April 29 2004, 08:07:30 UTC

Maybe he'll snatch Draco's body.

I hope not...

*current mood: scared*

tabiji @ April 29 2004, 08:13:52 UTC

Hmm. I'm not seeing it as Lucius being on trial. I agree with that. I think the 'trials' are referring to the 'tests' for Draco. Not necessarily that he's going to get The Mark on Friday, but that he's going to at least be assessed for his potential as a DE. Maybe they'd want to test his loyalty, trustworthiness, dedication, etc with Veritaserum? Draco on Veritaserum could prove to be disastrous to L&N, who haven't raised a little DE-wannabe - instead they have a son who's been involved with V's nemesis. Maybe L&N have finally picked up on the clues to that relationship and are making a back up plan for when the shit hits the fan?

Then again, maybe Draco's in on it and his desperate pleas to Harry are part of a plan for Draco to turn Harry over to Voldie. -.- At this point, nothing would surprise me.

He allows himself to be killed, because he's already planned to come back Now this one I can't agree with. JKR has been firm that once someone dies they can't come back, and NA is pretty strict to canon (except for the OotP stuff). I think Voldie wasn't technically dead, so he really couldn't come back to life.

xnera @ April 29 2004, 08:19:25 UTC

I think Voldie wasn't technically dead, so he really couldn't come back to life.

Oh yes, I agree that Voldie wasn't really dead, which is why I put it in quotes. but yeah, this also throws a wrench in my crazy theory, because I myself can't see Voldemort not actually killing Lucius. I mean, Voldie would just use Avada Kedavra, right? And the only one who can survive that is Harry.

So my crazy theory is bunk, which I pretty much knew. I blame the excess amount of sugar I've had tonight (mmm... toll house cookies) But damn, was it fun to speculate. :D

tabiji @ April 29 2004, 09:56:39 UTC

Excessive sugar and caffiene are the mark of the true nrager ;)

eponis @ April 29 2004, 08:22:36 UTC

Just responding to your Veritaserum comment: I would be surprised if Voldemort did that, frankly. Veritaserum is one of the big plot holes of the HP world: if it was readily available, then Voldemort would know that Snape was a spy and Dumbledore would know that Quirrell was possessed in a very short time. There are various theories about why it's not just brought up at every accusation, but basically, because it's so rarely been used as a deus ex machina by Rowling, it would be strange for the players to use it as such in NA.

tabiji @ April 29 2004, 10:27:40 UTC

Hmm, I dunno...Snape could probably get around Voldie with some sort of Counter-Veritaserum Potion. As for Dumbledore using it, it's probably not really his style? I would think that the portraits and ghosts and all would be his sources for intelligence, and I'm not certain that he DIDN'T know about Quirrel. I've seen speculation where people have wondered if Dumbledore knows exactly what is going on, yet sends Harry off without warning into all these challenges/battles because it's his destiny/whatever and Harry has to be the one to handle them.

Voldie might not even need Veritaserum. We saw in OotP he has the Legilimency ability (and canon Snape had experience in Occlumency), but of course we don't know if NA is going to adopt any of that from canon. I'd guess no though, since I don't recall ever seeing mention of it.

Required silly sexual comment: Draco's "test" could be getting gang-banged by Voldie and the DE's. (Even more disturbing to imagine when you consider Lucius' remark about 'blood running true') :))

magickslash @ April 30 2004, 05:11:03 UTC

Don't forget that when Umbridge demanded some more Veritaserum from Snape on the spot, he pointed out it takes about a month to prepare, just like the Polyjuice Potion. Also, you would have to be very skilled or at least naturally very talented (thinking of Hermione) to make either. That would make both a bit difficult to have on hand whenever they were wanted.

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 07:33:48 UTC

Matthew 26:37: And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zeb'edee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

Mark 14:33: And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;

But Luke 22:39: And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

All from the King James version.

gg_83 @ April 29 2004, 16:24:42 UTC

Whoa. Just the sudden realization that Peter and James are (obviously) the names of two of the Marauders, and John is the middle name of another. And Peter betrayed, and the remaining Marauder was sacrificed to Azkaban (and later to death).

Anyway. Not really NA-related, just HP-related.

vassilissa @ April 29 2004, 07:29:42 UTC

And Lucius is in the garden...

It made me laugh. Subtle, isn't he?

Anonymous @ April 29 2004, 06:45:25 UTC

Plus the reference (if it's intentional) to "will no one stay awake with me?" The whole tone of the entry fits what happened in the garden of Gethsemane. I doubt Lucius is a religious man, but he certainly seems resigned to whatever is about to happen.

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 06:53:50 UTC

Yes, very interesting. I didn't really think about that association... and it is very similiar, if it is deliberate, I wonder what it is supposed to mean.

saffronlie @ April 29 2004, 12:06:10 UTC

The implication of the apostles sleeping, or what I've always read into it, is that they were blind to what was to happen and chose to sleep foolishly when they should have been awake (constant vigilance!), keeping their Lord company, perhaps comforting and protecting him. Perhaps those who are sleeping while Lucius stays awake are foolish in some way, and missing an opportunity?

oconel @ April 29 2004, 06:45:59 UTC

I think he doesn't trust Draco yet: I'm as ready as I'll ever be. I only hope Draco is too.

I wonder if what's going to take place on Friday includes an attack.

shamera @ April 29 2004, 07:01:21 UTC

I actually don't think he's too ready for whatever's coming himself, but he's preparing nontheless. I think that statement is more self-doubt than doubting Draco, kind of like relying on a partner and knowing that you can't do the "job" by yourself.

Arg. Not very articulate tonight.

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 07:03:42 UTC

I thought that was more something like he doesn't trust himself. Perhaps the trial that is to be administered must be by his own hand.

Let's hope the trial isn't fatal if failed... :|

oconel @ April 29 2004, 07:07:25 UTC

Let's hope the trial isn't fatal if failed...

He's placing himself in Jesus place, isn't he?

Does that make any sense?

If Draco doesn't take the Mark will he die?

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 07:14:00 UTC

I wish I knew. :| Jesus or Judas... or perhaps even none of them, but either way, at least Jesus rose up again, after three days...?

keristars @ April 29 2004, 16:20:19 UTC

Well, maybe whatever happens doesn't result in an actual death, but something like that curse/potion/i forget what it was that makes someone just look dead, and then they can do the rising after three days thing. Just without an actual death.

I'm not sure if this fits in with this thread in particular, but a lot of people seem to be bringing it up, so...

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 23:41:46 UTC

The Draught of the Living Death?

keristars @ April 30 2004, 02:06:17 UTC

Is that it? I'm now having trouble remembering if it's a fanon or canon thing. But it seems likely that they might do something like that, whatever their reasons might be.

bookofjude @ April 30 2004, 02:11:55 UTC

As far as I know, it's canon. I do believe it was mentioned in NA!canon too, or maybe I'm getting that mixed up with the mention of Malecrit's play, the title of which I just forgot. The mention of the Draught of the Living Death is PS/SS(UK) 103. "For your information Potter, asphodel and womrwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death.", by Snape.

:)) Looks like I misspelt it. I'm not exactly sure if it emulates the effects of Death, but if I remember correctly, Jesus mentions regularly that the dead are merely "sleeping", especially in the instance of Lazarus having died.

th_australia @ Deleted Deleted

Deleted

magickslash @ April 30 2004, 05:14:31 UTC

It used to be said that when people sold their souls to Satan, the deal was sealed with a kiss on the Devil's posterior. Since Voldemort is Potterdom's Satan (or at least Antichrist), that might fit too.

Also, I notice how frequently Lucius's player has posted here in the last few days. Hanging out with the fans for a bit before saying farewell for good?

eponis @ April 29 2004, 07:12:33 UTC . . . and the RELI major acts pretentious . . .

Summary of the religious imagery that I've noticed:

"Gethsemane": garden where Jesus spent the night praying, then was betrayed by Judas and sent to the trials that would end in His execution

I've been out in the garden, thinking: Jesus specifically went out to the Garden to pray

no one will stay awake with me: Jesus asked his disciples to stay awake while He prayed, but all of them fell asleep, repeatedly

Trials are soon to take place: Jesus was, the next day, subjected to multiple trials (some by the religious authorities, some by civic authorities)

I feel now as though it is all out of my hands: Pontius Pilate "washed his hands" of Jesus before He was executed on the Jewish authorities' request. Alternately, Jesus's prayers at Gethsemane talk about "not my will, but God's will be done", essentially giving up control

I'll have another drink.: Jesus phrases His obedience as "if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done" - i.e. He will drink the cup God has given him

if the sins of the father will be visited upon the son: Here, for the first time, we part with the Gethesemane metaphor: for Jesus, the sins of the world were visited upon the Son, thereby separating Him from the Father. Nevertheless, this is a common phrase, especially in the Old Testament.

Also, from the last Narcissa post:

You shall soon reap the rewards of one little kiss: of course, Judas kissed Jesus to mark Him as the one to be arrested by Roman guards

Re: the music, note this nRaged comment about Samuel Hexber.

Hopefully that's helpful. Wild speculation will follow in a separate comment. :-)

bookofjude @ April 29 2004, 07:15:51 UTC Re: . . . and the RELI major acts pretentious . . .

Thank you darling. I will just sit here worrying at the screen.

eponis @ April 29 2004, 07:24:13 UTC Wild speculation!

Now for the wild speculation. I do apologize if this has already been said; I've looked at past Nraged threads, but not fully kept up.

From all the language here, Lucius is Jesus and Narcissa is a kind of Judas. Now, he realizes the metaphor he's using, so obviously she's not (he thinks) betraying him. So who is she betraying, and what trial is he undertaking? We know (or at least things like "sorcery and a vow preclude me from doing so" and myriad other hints would make us think) that Draco will be taking the Dark Mark. This doesn't seem like any kind of trial or problem for Lucius; to the contrary, it ought to be his highest hope, assuming he feels reasonably sure that Draco will agree.

So here's my wild theory: they have both decided to work for the light side. All the horrible nastiness in the wake of the Weasleys has been an intentional front to avoid DE suspicion. Somehow they plan to use Draco's Marking against Voldemort; at the very least, they hope to interrupt the ceremony or save Draco from it.

Narcissa is motivated by pure protectiveness; "all her efforts" refers to all the nudging that she's been doing throughout the game to keep Draco away from pure DE influences. That's why she comments "No matter what I truly feel about things, I shall see the situation through to the end."; she's frankly not very ideologically motivated to fight Voldemort, but she just wants to save Draco.

Lucius . . . I'm not sure why he's doing it, but the tone of all his recent entries seems like trepidation and planning. It just seems like the evidence points to it - the slimy-nastiness is "SO obvious it can't be real." And then there's this whole thread. Many of their comments seem to be saying "trust us, we look evil but we know what we're doing." - "One does what one must. / It's a pity that more people don't understand that."; "Reality is what one makes of it, not necessarily one and the same as that with whom one associates." Also, note that in that post, the Chamber of Secrets - source of power for Voldemort - is listed along with the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain, things that were rightly broken.

And Draco? I don't know. This could be why he needed to talk to Harry: not because he wanted to back out of becoming a Death Eater, but because he was scared at the thought of confronting Voldemort, and wanted to talk to the one person who'd done it. Also, it might relate to the curious focus that Lucius has recently had upon Draco's choice: for once, he seems to be backing away from pushing a sense of Malfoy responsibility. Now, taking the Mark has to be done willingly, but that isn't all there is to this. It's as if Lucius himself is hesitant to make Draco do this, though proud of him if he does - and I can't see a loyal DE Lucius being hesitant about Draco taking the Mark.

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic here. But I honestly wonder whether Lucius is, in his own way, trying to do the right thing.

eponis @ April 29 2004, 07:33:49 UTC Tidbits I forgot . . .

Lucius's "sins of the father comment" would, in this theory, refer to the uncertainty of their plan. If they fail, then Draco is dead or a Death Eater, thanks to Lucius's "sin" of joining himself.

Narcissa's travels in the recent past have been negotiations or scheming related to this, once they decided to embark on it.

The "Death" tarot card signifies significant and generally positive change, which is what they hope to achieve.

Lucius's comment about the Ptolemies book - I don't know much about Egyptian history, but a Google search said that Ptolemy I was one of Alexander the Great's generals; Alexander had conquered Egypt, but after his death his kingdom was carved up and Ptolemy took Egypt. In other words, Lucius hopes that he, the "general" of Voldemort, will prosper after Voldemort's death.

Or maybe this is all just wrong.

eponis @ April 29 2004, 07:41:56 UTC . . . and one more musical tidbit

While Samuel Barber did write an Adiago for Strings, he did not write (as far as I can tell) anything called "Gethsemane." However, he did write "Crucifixion." These are the lyrics:

At the cry of the first bird
They began to crucify Thee, O Swan!
Never shall lament cease because of that.
It was like the parting of day from night.
Ah, sore was the suffering borne
By the body of Mary's Son,
But sorer still to Him was the grief
Which for His sake
Came upon His Mother.

Narcissa and Draco, anyone?

vassilissa @ April 29 2004, 08:02:42 UTC Re: . . . and one more musical tidbit

Et tu, nraged?

Why yes, my assignment on that very song (atonal, Music Analysis assignment 3) was due today. Yes, I am feeling pretty guilty/defensive about that.

*dies*

eponis @ April 29 2004, 08:04:43 UTC Re: . . . and one more musical tidbit

::laughs:: That's marvelous. Care to share any NA insights?

vassilissa @ April 29 2004, 08:21:11 UTC *puts on wide eyed [musical] theorist goggles*

Let's see.

It's centred around A, so maybe a_slytherin, arithmantra, and artistic_flower are involved. There are some grace notes in the introduction. Narcissa is graceful, so that's a reference to her. It's in alternating 6/8 3/4 time, so that alludes to the uncertainty about whether Narcissa&Lucius&Draco, or just Narcissa&Lucius, will stand united on this. It's also a reference to the Holy Trinity - when it's in 6/8, that's because Jesus is dead/mortal so his beat drops out.

It's marked Moderato, which must mean that Lucius considers himself politically moderate, perhaps more so than Voldemort. The metronome marking is 56, which could be... no, it's two years after Lucius's birth-year. Maybe something Dark happened when he was two?

The lines "Ah, sore was the suff'ring borne By the body of Mary's Son" are marked broadly. Sally-Anne is a broad. She must be making Draco suffer.

The lines "But sorer still to Him" are marked p, tenderly and slower, giving us an insight into Narcissa's softer side.

Obviously, given the all pedal markings (nine in the last system alone,) Voldemort's final attack on Hogwarts will involve a huge fleet of bicycles, making for an ironically Mugglish twist to his pure-blood attack.

sprengstoff @ April 29 2004, 08:23:35 UTC Re: *puts on wide eyed [musical] theorist goggles*

Obviously, given the all pedal markings (nine in the last system alone,) Voldemort's final attack on Hogwarts will involve a huge fleet of bicycles, making for an ironically Mugglish twist to his pure-blood attack.

Hahaha, thank you for the laugh -- I'm adding you. :)

vassilissa @ April 30 2004, 05:08:08 UTC Re: *puts on wide eyed [musical] theorist goggles*

Back at you. :-)

eponis @ April 29 2004, 08:25:18 UTC Re: *puts on wide eyed [musical] theorist goggles*

::giggles madly::

I <3 you.

And I will pay to see a huge fleet of DEs on bicycles, madly pedaling toward the Hogwarts walls.

small_rodent @ April 29 2004, 20:00:12 UTC Re: More wild speculation!

Interesting that you should suggest that Lucius is going to sacrifice himself for Draco... I think that the idea of the Malfoys trying to keep Draco out of the cycle makes sense, particularly after Lucius said "And wonder if the sins of the father will be visited upon the son," since that sounds like there's something that happened to him that he doesn't want to have happen to Draco.

The thing about sacrifice, though, is that there's a precedent for it in canon; Lily's sacrifice for Harry. Nearly all of Harry's power in fighting Voldemort comes from the protection that Lily placed upon him; whether or not the Malfoys want Draco to actively fight Voldie, or just want to be free of him, making Draco immune to Voldie's power would make a big difference.

The main problem I see with this theory though is that it's difficult for me to imagine Lucius making such a great sacrifice for Draco, unless he already thinks that he's going to die. That kind of love doesn't seem to be a part of the Malfoy family. I could maybe see Narcissa doing such a thing, in extreme circumstances, but not Lucius.

lilychick @ April 30 2004, 16:50:53 UTC Re: Wild speculation!

Also, note that in that post, the Chamber of Secrets - source of power for Voldemort - is listed along with the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain, things that were rightly broken.

A-ha!

Draco: Father, what's an Iron Curtain got to do with my nose?
Lucius: You'd be surprised.

I knew there was something there that I wasn't getting. Hee!

Thank you. This was bugging me. (*grin*)

sistermagpie @ April 29 2004, 15:11:16 UTC Re: . . . and the RELI major acts pretentious . . .

That was great! I was just going through his post and trying to do the same thing.

A note on the music, it was discussed from the pov of the composer, but with all the JCS references around here I always thought of it with relation to that show, which also has the song Gesthemane which begins with, "Will no one stay awake with me?" Jesus is demanding to know why his sacrifice is necessary, and whether it will really make a difference, but ultimately steels himself to do it even not knowing all the answers. It is out of his hands-doesn't Jesus also take this view (at least he does in JCS!).

So definitely Lucius sees himself as waiting for the inevitable. Som events he's set in motion, but some he hasn't. In the Bible Jesus knows what is going on-he's already predicted Judas' betrayal and Peter's later denial of him. Is Lucius really seeing himself as the sacrifice here? And if so, should we believe him? Maybe his idea of sacrifice is really more like sacrificing someone else. Draco makes a tempting possibility because he is the son and the more "pure" sacrifice given that he's not been a DE, but I don't know. Is a guy who compares himself to Jesus really likely to be representing himself correctly, or even be Christ-like? It seems like he's almost moving through the Bible, placing himself in all the different roles: he's mentioned Pilate, Judas, the devil and now Jesus. Perhaps, if really this is all in his hands, he really just sees himself as God, who of course is the one who sacrificed his son (I'll wisely refrain from any comments about why!).

It seems like they've been pretty open about Draco facing trials, and that it's mostly upon him that judgment will rest. There's a lot of talk about Draco's choice but again I don't know if we should trust that means the same thing to Lucius as it does to us. Any choice made by Draco concerning Lucius comes with strings attached-as he said, he wants to make his father proud of him. When Draco failed to live up to his name after the duel Lucius temporarily disowned him. Lucius has been laying off pushing the "act like a Malfoy" thing, but that just may be because it's less appropriate for this situation. Perhaps he's being tested as a man here, specifically not as a Malfoy. Draco hasn't shown any signs of deciding anything-he's just hopped into "good son" mode in response to every single question. The only hint he might feel differently was his wanting to speak to Harry.

The sins of the father could refer to Draco, or perhaps one of the other kids, even Harry. Lucius has in the past made a point of saying how much Harry is like his father (and Snape has certainly visited quite a few of his father's sins upon him). Lucius could also be referring to himself, as he's been known to make comparisons between his relationship with his father and Draco. But Draco seems like the most obvious choice, given that he's L's son. Yet we still don't know what Lucius sees as his sins and how they would be visited. Most people see Draco as being ruined by being turned into a DE like his father, but Lucius may have a different perspective.

Narcissa feels he seems apprehensive, which for some reason did make it seems like maybe it's Draco who's on the block here. It could also refer to Lucius' fears for himself, though. But it just seems so Lucius and so wicked and so screwed up to be asking for sympathy because he's having to sacrifice somebody else, especially his kid.:-)

Also, perhaps we should consider that Draco is Judas in his parents' eyes and is being given a chance to redeem himself.

Anonymous @ April 29 2004, 07:45:49 UTC

I have but this to say: omgwtfbbq.

Anonymous @ April 29 2004, 07:50:20 UTC

word.

chinae @ April 29 2004, 14:50:31 UTC

If Narcissa is Judas, could Draco be Peter?

aquagia @ April 29 2004, 14:58:23 UTC

Hmm...even if Draco chooses not to be DE, I can't really ever see him RENOUNCING his father...

keristars @ April 29 2004, 16:23:36 UTC

But recall that even though Peter renounces Jesus three times before the cock crows, he is only saying the words and doesn't really believe it, and he then goes on to be the "rock" of the Christian church and does all sorts of stuff which has momentarily fled my mind, but ends up asking to be crucified upside down, out of respect for Jesus' crucifixion (that, and he doesn't feel worthy to die in the same way, iirc)

aquagia @ April 29 2004, 14:57:47 UTC

WWLD?

What Would Looshy Do?

I'm makin' bracelets.

Anonymous @ April 29 2004, 18:28:02 UTC

I'd like one, please.

--Lucius' player

lazy_daze @ April 29 2004, 18:38:41 UTC

Re: Looshie's reply - second thoughts? :-? What do they want to talk about? Well, I suppose that's pretty obvious *grins*, but why does he want to talk about it?