hezzabeth @ June 22 2004, 00:10:11 UTC

But why are Millicent and Draco fighting? is this about him having to do his history of magic notes alone? or is he jealous of Nott?

onthehillside @ June 22 2004, 00:18:00 UTC

Did you see their fight here?

I don't have a clue what this is really about. I think that it is a long time coming. Things got weird during the Sleep Duel.

hezzabeth @ June 22 2004, 00:20:49 UTC

Oh man I did'nt see that, poor Draco I'd feel horrible if my best friend " dumped" me.

lonelyspade @ June 22 2004, 02:03:36 UTC

Yah, I'm starting to see that... It really sucks for Draco though, since he's a little really dependent on Millicent...

black_dog @ June 22 2004, 00:45:10 UTC

I'm wondering what kind of pressures Draco is under behind the scenes, that may be making him so irritable and demanding. I found it interesting that on Lucius post where he sort-of expresses confidence in Draco, Snape also spoke up, saying he, too, had confidence in Draco. Is Lucius implicitly reminding Draco of a role he has been assigned in an upcoming plot? And is Snape playing on his double-agent role and weighing in on the other side?

sistermagpie @ June 22 2004, 01:35:35 UTC

To me it seemed like Snape was speaking up to say that Lucius wasn't the only influence on Draco's life, or the only people in his corner. Draco went to see a professor a while ago, and he may have wanted to talk to Snape.

I was thinking, after Draco's recent sweet postings with jh, just what happened between them that made things seem significantly better--enough so that Seamus feels they might have a chance. Since it happened after the Mystery Weekend, I feel like Draco must have made some move--I don't mean a big dramatic change of sides or whatever--but some move where he was willing to talk about these issues and make Harry feel a little better about it.

Crabbe says Draco and MB are fighting over NEWTs, but I wonder what the deal is with Nott. He's been a big presence in Draco's life and he's never quite been friends with him but still...he's comparing him to Miranda Mulligan, whom Pansy and MB turned into a potato when Draco was hanging out with her, right? So it seems like Draco is feeling like this is the same thing, with Millicent throwing him over for Nott who's a first time Quidditch player. And now she's calling him Theodore!

And what's MB's feeling on this? Why does she want to spend time with Nott? Is she angry at Draco and wanting to make him jealous? And what about Pansy??

I dunno...it's weird. Draco could be under stress besides NEWTs, but at the same time he seems to be behaving better with Harry so he doesn't seem just angry overall. He copied Crabbe's notes for him (and good lord, Crabbe lost them!). It seems like a real MB/Draco thing. I wonder if he's acting out in some ways because school is ending and he's worried--Harry got him to come to him by reminding him they were going home in a few days, and the sleeping thread had a melencholy air to it too...it made me wonder how they were going to sleep apart if they'd gotten to prefer it.

black_dog @ June 22 2004, 02:11:32 UTC

To me it seemed like Snape was speaking up to say that Lucius wasn't the only influence on Draco's life, or the only people in his corner.

Exactly. But why would he speak up, so publicly, to Lucius as opposed to just privately reassuring PS? I think Lucius is playing head games with Draco, by implying and then backing away from the suggestion that he doesn't quite have confidence in him. This seems to be a proven technique for getting Draco to protest, and to prove, his loyalty to Lucius. Lucius is also implicitly disparaging any Hogwarts loyalties Draco may have acquired, by suggesting that not much will remain of Hogwarts after whatever is in the works actually happens. But what is it that moves Lucius to make this sort of move right now? Especially since Draco will presumably be back under his unchallenged control, at the Manor, in just a few days? That's what makes me suspect that Lucius is steeling PS to follow through with a role in whatever DE plot is afoot, and Snape is making a countermove intended both to reassure PS and rattle Lucius.

If something really is afoot, I wonder if Hogwarts isn't better prepared for it than last year. All this stuff about surrendering wands, being wandless -- it's almost too obvious, given the impending danger. Could it be intended to lure the DE's into a false sense of security?

Draco's recent, more overt postings with Harry could also be read two ways. Maybe he's made a committment and become comfortable with it. Or maybe, his frankness and his craving for Harry are a sign of his own increased emotional volatility, his neediness, in the face of powerful stresses. And although there seems to have been a breakthrough a few weeks ago that let the relationship resume, I'm not totally convinced that Seamus was referring to H/D when he talked about how "they" might have a chance after all. I felt this was left more ambiguous than that.

It seems like a real MB/Draco thing.

Yeah, there's something odd going on here, they both seem genuinely bitter. Although MB is disgusted when Crabbe offers to "pound" Draco, so it's not a simple falling out. Draco feels "abandoned." I don't think he's jealous of Nott in any crude sense, since he was never jealous of Pansy/Millicent and even Boot/Millicent was more of a joke to him than anything else. It's got to stand for something more than appears on the surface. Maybe he's angry that MB is avoiding him when he's under so much (hypothetical) pressure, feels that she's somehow flaking out at the last minute? We're not totally clear on where Nott stands on the DE's -- is he pro-DE or a budding ally against them? So I don't know if MB's friendship with Nott represents an accommodation to expected DE triumph or a superficial rebellion that mocks the complexity of PS' own choices. Don't know, here, but I'm looking for an additional layer of significance beyond a spat between friends.

and the sleeping thread had a melencholy air to it too

That it did. And are we completely certain that they got together the second night, or was the "washing my face" thing a dismissal, even after PS admitted he'd rather be sleeping with Harry? I notice PS didn't jump into conversation with Harry when Harry started chatting with Dean on PS' journal today. As usual, it is always dangerous too feel to happy all at once about anything in NA.

sistermagpie @ June 22 2004, 02:47:46 UTC

Lucius is also implicitly disparaging any Hogwarts loyalties Draco may have acquired, by suggesting that not much will remain of Hogwarts after whatever is in the works actually happens.

I feel like Lucius is trying to undermine all the emotional ties Draco has to Hogwarts people. Draco himself posted that he won't know any of these people after he leaves and doesn't care to, so Seamus suggested that he would see some people. Lucius, not for the first time, tries to tell Harry that Draco isn't to be trusted, which seems like an openly destructive thing to do. Like he knows that Harry is a smart guy and rightly paranoid about this stuff. It seems like he's trying to plant seeds of doubt in Harry's mind so that Harry seems to want Draco to change and Draco re-affirms that he's always been himself and so Lucius' son. Really, not just Harry's mind but everyone's. If something happens the other kids may suspect Draco.

Lucius' thread was a great tense battle of all the forces in Draco's life who had a stake in his future--Snape, Narcissa, Lucius and Harry. Draco's post is hard to read because it's just his usual Dad-speak where he's the perfect son. If he knows what Lucius wants from him he answers as if it's all about his NEWTs. Code or just Draco taking the easier way out?

Or maybe, his frankness and his craving for Harry are a sign of his own increased emotional volatility, his neediness, in the face of powerful stresses.

On one hand he was more comfortable with some things and the other that he is beginning to clutch at Harry and is unsure what will happen when they leave. I wondered at some point today if Draco's telling Harry his glasses suited him etc., meant that whatever Draco had finally gotten Harry to believe was something positive, and that this had made him less scared to actually express some true feelings for Harry. So, like, he could say his glasses suited him whereas in the past he'd have been too defensive even for that. On the sleep thread neither of them is going to sleep--they both say they're tired but can't stop talking to each other--until Draco says he'll be right there (I think that was starred, that Draco's face washing comment was his way of saying he was coming to Harry).

Yeah, there's something odd going on here, they both seem genuinely bitter.

What was the gift Draco referred to, that MB made but never sent? (The puffskein?) She seemed pretty stung by that, like that was an indication that Draco was truly angry at being abandoned (and was the gift connected to abandonment too?). It seems like MB "abandoned" Draco quite a lot this weekend--she didn't help him with Crabbe's notes as she said, she didn't revise with him for herbology, she didn't go down to dinner with him. She let Nott feed the cat (which apparently Draco is not allowed to do). More importantly, she does things with Nott Draco doesn't like to do, like read books. I notice they also drink tea, which Draco does like, and drinks with Seamus, whom MB doesn't like. Only MB doesn't like Seamus and Draco...well, it's not that he doesn't like Nott. He seems to be a pretty constant aquaintance. But Nott seems to have charmed the wrong person this time.

I don't think it's Nott though-doesn't this just get right into all of ps' issues of people losing interest, like his mother? He seems like he's jealous of MB's focus on Nott like he was of Narcissa's on Harry.

Isn't the Harry/Dean convo in the sleep thread? I thought Harry and Dean were bantering, then ps showed up and Dean politely withdrew and left them to talk.

black_dog @ June 22 2004, 03:24:58 UTC

Isn't the Harry/Dean convo in the sleep thread?

Oops. You're right. I had noticed PS' initial non-response at the time, and filed it away in my head, and then forgot which convo was which when I made that point. Sorry, brain-circuits got crossed.

I think that was starred, that Draco's face washing comment was his way of saying he was coming to Harry

Oh, I didn't see that star -- that would be very reassuring, then.

What was the gift Draco referred to, that MB made but never sent?

Don't know, but this really stings her, "What was that for?" "I think you are done here." It doesn't feel like something she did for/to him, because that would be more familiar ground, there would be things to say, readier to hand, about that kind of grievance -- instead, she seems really surprised and hurt, like it's a cheap shot. Could it be a reference to MB's relationship to someone else, where she abruptly became fickle and called things off? Pansy? Boot? Susan Bones? It seems more of an accusation about a character flaw, observed impersonally, than a rehash of an old grievance.

So what could they be fighting about? Really, jealously of Nott is the plain, surface issue, and it would seem like the easiest explanation, if only it felt more plausible. But it just doesn't, to me, and that's why I'm looking for something else. Could MB be insufficiently supportive of Harry, now that school is ending and an amusing distraction is over with? On the Patronus thread, MB makes an odd remark about the Patronus "not being able to find a glowing bed to sleep in tonight." Maybe MB was hogging Draco's bed when PS and JH came back and wouldn't give it up? :) Or she did something to spoil the mood?

He seems like he's jealous of MB's focus on Nott like he was of Narcissa's on Harry.

Actually, this reminds me of the nice things Narcissa is saying about Nott, that PS seems to object to. Sinister thought: are people close to him telling him to get over Harry, because Harry's not going to survive whatever-it-is, and there are lots of other nice boys out there, anyway?

Lucius' thread was a great tense battle of all the forces in Draco's life who had a stake in his future--Snape, Narcissa, Lucius and Harry. Draco's post is hard to read because it's just his usual Dad-speak where he's the perfect son. If he knows what Lucius wants from him he answers as if it's all about his NEWTs. Code or just Draco taking the easier way out?

Yes, given all the chattering on this thread, it's remarkable how restrained PS is, with his single, ambiguous comment. "Father, I have, of course, learnt everything from you." That one could certainly cut a number of ways, not all of them favorable to the idea that Draco remains loyal to Lucius. "I do hope to make you proud of me when I take my N.E.W.T.s." If whatever-it-is is intended to disrupt the NEWTs, this could also be a quiet statement of dissent. But that's very loose speculation.

Not a fucking clue, as usual! :)

sistermagpie @ June 22 2004, 15:20:01 UTC

It doesn't feel like something she did for/to him, because that would be more familiar ground, there would be things to say, readier to hand, about that kind of grievance -- instead, she seems really surprised and hurt, like it's a cheap shot.

That's exactly what it sounded like to me too. And I didn't immediately think it had anything to do with Draco either. It sounded more like something he knew about but concerned someone else, and that this was something that it was understood wasn't brought up. I wondered if it wasn't something having to do with her parents, somehow, because it seemed like something personal few people would know about. But I don't have any specific idea about MB's relationship with her parents beyond what we know. It definitely sounded more like something MB did--as you said, a character flaw, not a grievance.

It definitely doesn't sound like ps is jealous of Nott specifically. I mean, he knows Nott and has gone through plenty of feelings about him since Nott's so mercurial. It seems like it's more MB's reaction he doesn't like. We know he hates getting blown off-he was angry at Harry that time they were supposed to meet and he ran off to be with Sirius. I thought Narcissa's comments about Nott being a nice boy were just something ps didn't want to here right now because why was Nott suddenly so popular? (He may already have some feelings of inadequacy there anyway because Nott is apparently so popular with girls.)

I mean, my instinct is to take ps' words at face value when he says what he's upset about--that he's been abandoned for Nott in such a way that violates the rules of their little group. They're all allowed to have other friends, but it seems like MB is breaking the rules here, not getting everybody on board before she acts and making Draco feel tossed aside because she thinks Nott's better than he is. MB is now claiming she's always been chummy with him, denying she's doing it-she may be embarassed at how obvious she's being. He's mostly angry for himself but I thought his bringing Pansy into it suggested this was a Trio problem, not just his own. MB was abandoning them both. Perhaps Pansy isn't as paranoid about it, but his using her as an example made it seem like Draco thought she'd have every right to be.

Sinister thought: are people close to him telling him to get over Harry, because Harry's not going to survive whatever-it-is, and there are lots of other nice boys out there, anyway?

It seems like MB is all too willing to let him be with Harry while she's with Nott, though. (She says she asked Draco to come to dinner with her and Theodore, but Draco doesn't seem to recall it--it sounds like it was probably pretty vague and he either didn't hear it or it was kind of half-hearted, not a real invitation.) Narcissa, I'd think, has always been approving of Nott because she knows his parents--he and Sally-Anne seem to both be acceptable DE kids Draco is made to spend time with when Lucius and Narcissa are calling the shots.

It's hard to say what Nott's loyalties are, of course. He seems to go through phases and who knows what's next? Perhaps now he'll be into Quidditch for a while. I seem to recall him putting up an Icelandic flag, was it? And didn't that country turn out to have a really high concentration of wizards? I wondered if that could in anyway be a flag that symbolized an interest in Pureblood separation--but it might not.

It's interesting too that this is happening along with the Patronus thing. Despite what Draco says he *is* stuck on the fact he can't do Patronus even if many others can't. Nott and MB *both* can, and MB's Patronus is himself which could be even more disconcerting. Not only has she abandoned him for Nott but she's entertaining Nott with a glowing version of Draco (who needs the real thing?). In a strange way, it's a bit presumptuous.

That one could certainly cut a number of ways, not all of them favorable to the idea that Draco remains loyal to Lucius.

Yes, that's fabulous, given Draco may have been doing some thinking. Lucius seems to say everybody will be starting their post-school life unless something prevents it--like they get killed.

sistermagpie @ June 22 2004, 00:50:39 UTC

That killed me too. I already wanted to snuggle Crabbe for his plans to do broom repair--go for it, Crabbe! And his mother's going out with a guy he doesn't like that makes her not sad anymore. But Draco throwing the candle at the wall is very sad.

Now, is MB actually flirting with Nott (he's quite irresistable, remember!) or is she just hanging out with him? Draco says she abandoned him and Pansy and...isn't she with Pansy?

I noticed Draco sounded quite annoyed with them last night when Harry asked how MB was and talked about how Nott knocked her off her broom. Draco said, "He's never even been on a Quidditch team," and I got the feeling he thought Nott stole his thunder on the Pitch.

onthehillside @ June 22 2004, 04:43:48 UTC

I think that things between Draco and Millicent have been weird and tense for a while. There's a whole marriage backstory that I don't really understand, and that came out to play I think during the sleep duel. Lucius told Millicent that she was welcome anytime at the manor, while simultaneously telling Pansy she was unimportant. I don't know how all of this fits in. I think that we can't really pinpoint a reason for this rift because Nott's such a mystery of a character. I wish I could figure out what happened during the the duel. Why was Millicent so pensive? Why did Draco keep apologizing?

onthehillside @ June 22 2004, 04:47:16 UTC

Just to add. The whole sleep thing is a big unknown metaphor with Draco. So the fact that something big happened to Draco and Millicent while Draco wasn't sleeping could mean something. Or not. I don't know what the hell is going on, really. :D

lonelyspade @ June 22 2004, 01:52:16 UTC

Woa. Millicent's getting snappy. Millicent said she was going to bed. And then she tells Crabbe to "shut the hell up"? I didn't think she was that mad.... :(