notapipe @ July 15 2003, 00:25:39 UTC

You make it sound like Harry is TG and got reassigned. Good work on that, certianly made me laugh.

I think that it's not exactly much of a transformation per se. In his last post Remus mentioned that In the end it was a brilliant visit, as Harry has become a remarkable young man not for any reason other than that he is just himself, and a wonderful himself he is. I am inclined to think it's Remus's response to a sort of realignment of his interaction with Harry; one which serves to reassure his own preconceived notions (especially in the aftermath of the attack), certianly, but a realignment. In a different enviroment, in different settings, with the changes Harry has gone through in the attack produces not just a more mature Harry, but a different way for Harry to interact with Lupin. Oh, and the alcohol probably helps. The result is that Lupin can evaluate Harry (also, the disjunct between being seen last) as "become a remarkable young man" without some drastic transformation.

Or he may have grown a beard, who knows?

dragynville @ July 15 2003, 00:35:04 UTC

New perspective on Harry's most recent changes? Yes, that makes sense because they really didn't have much time to interact with Harry between his recovery from the attack and the end of term. I hadn't thought of it like that.

theantimodel @ July 15 2003, 00:26:01 UTC

Harry is well and you would be so fucking proud of him. You would. Come home soon Padfoot so you can see for yourself what a wonderful man he has become.

It doesn't seem to mean anything yet, I mean we've not heard of any possible things Harry could have done that would officially "make him a man" besides him just being himself.

I think he was just saying it to say it, because he's in such an emotional place right now. Because his comments put in the context of his recent transformations and of Sirius' prolonged absence, I really don't think he could have meant anything of significance by the comment. To me, it really seemed more like Lupin is just feeling really sad to not have either of his boys there with him, so he said the comment about Harry.

notapipe @ July 15 2003, 00:34:52 UTC

I wouldn't say it's NOTHING. There is an important change in that, since the meeting in the park, he's been referring to Harry as a "man" rather than simply as a "boy". He didn't do that before (to my recollection or short perusal of Remus's archives all the way back to april).

Language is important, and such a change indicates that he's respecting that Harry is, to some extent, his own, albiet young, adult. He's still Remus's boy, but he's also a man; and that matters.

babytyggeryss @ July 15 2003, 00:54:41 UTC

Yes, Harry has recovered with grace for the end-of-term disaster. Things haven't gone his way, but he's compromised.

This little outing maybe the first time in a long time, or ever, that these two men have been able to have a one-on-one talk; this would have shown Remus other sides of Harry that he's never seen. At school, there wasn't allot of time for them to talk and when they were at DW, Sirius or other people were always around.

Harry will always be Remus's pup; he's just a big pup now. Remus had a parent moment.

black_dog @ July 15 2003, 00:51:10 UTC

I agree with both notapipe and theantimodel above. It's the first time Remus has really seen Harry on his own turf in Surrey and not in his role as a pupil at Hogwarts or as a visitor to his godfather's house. And they did some serious bonding -- I've felt, sometimes, that Harry doesn't signal, and maybe doesn't feel, the same kind of closeness to Remus as he does to Sirius, so this was important one-on-one time for Remus, as well. So it was sort of a chance to see Harry fresh, to evaluate him outside the normal context that is taken for granted at Hogwarts, notice him more as an independent person and less as a character in a role.

And after all, Harry nearly died in the corridor collapse, and there has perhaps finally been time for the horror of all that to sink in. So there's every reason for it to have been an emotionally charged visit for Remus, and a moment to see Harry in a new light.

At the same time, Remus' language probably is a bit exaggerated and overwraught, because of the aftereffects of his transformation. He does mention at the end of his comment that Seamus was coming in to urge him to lie back down. So he's probably a little woozy and sentimental. Which shouldn't obsure the fact that the love and admiration he feels for Harry is real, and justified.

dragynville @ July 15 2003, 00:57:42 UTC

It just sounded so odd since it hadn't been that long since he'd last seen him (pre-visit). But I forgot to take into account the lack of time they had with him after the attack.

And I do still want to hear more about the visit. Or future ones. I love the interaction between Harry and his 'parents' (especially since being shortchanged by JKR in that department).

black_dog @ July 15 2003, 01:08:12 UTC

The lack of time after the attack, yes, but also a whole bunch of other stuff as well -- the wedding, the honeymoon, the end of term prep. I can really see Remus, here, suddenly noticing all the changes that have taken place in Harry over the last term.

Think about what Harry was like as recently as a few months ago -- this terribly self-effacing, somewhat glumly nice boy who was terrified of confronting the whole TBWL thing, didn't feel worthy of it, didn't feel connected to or responsible for other people. And since then there's been the normal maturing of time, there's been the relationship with Draco, there's been the outing and his graceful recovery from it, emotional confrontation and deeper bonding with his friends. And to top it off, he really did live up to the TBWL myth, he fought and outwitted Voldemort, he probably saved many lives, though he couldn't stop the attack entirely. And he nearly got killed himself, which probably gives him a little gravitas, a little perspective in handling ordinary ups and downs.

It sounds like Harry was cheerful and happy in the pub, sure of himself, capable of handling the adversity of being with the Dursleys with amusement and resignation.

So there are many reasons why we have a newly confident, newly self-assured Harry, whom Remus might be seeing clearly for the first time.

babytyggeryss @ July 15 2003, 01:21:09 UTC

I can't wait to see how Remus and this new Harry interact. I hope that someday Harry and Remus can be on a level similar to what Harry as with Sirius.

If the two get close enough, Harry might be able to turn to Remus in some situations. His relationship with Draco, for one. Sirius has a short fuse when it comes to Draco and doesn't always think rationally when he thinks Harry is in danger.

We shall have to see, but I'm hoping for the best.

black_dog @ July 15 2003, 01:33:44 UTC

I was just thinking how much more sympathetic Remus would be about Draco than Sirius. We know from Veritaserum night that Remus has a sneaking admiration for Draco, while Sirius has some, er, hostility issues.

Did you notice that Remus just posted on potterstinks' journal, to wish him well on his Apparation test? (And to tease him about the zombie puffskein.)

babytyggeryss @ July 15 2003, 01:53:23 UTC

Remus doesn't normally do things like that. We know that the day of his test was announced by Draco and Lucius but I wonder if his talk with Harry doesn't have something to do with it.

Very odd but sweet none the less.

notapipe @ July 15 2003, 01:55:58 UTC

Though it could also be explained by him commenting FIRST about the puffskein, but being the nice guy he is, also wishing Draco luck. Though I expect there is more to it than just that, it's certianly important in the calculus.

black_dog @ July 15 2003, 02:27:35 UTC

But he doesn't normally tease Draco, either! So maybe he's teasing about the puffskein to cover for the good wishes -- his tacit endorsement of Draco visiting Harry once he has his license. I bet Harry told him how much he was looking forward to it.

tabiji @ July 15 2003, 02:29:51 UTC

Yes! I also think it's interesting that he didn't comment to Cho. It is SO code for "I saw Harry and he can't wait to see you! He sends his love and says 'come soon'".

I may be reading into it a bit, though. :P

lunadeath02 @ July 15 2003, 11:04:57 UTC

I agree with what you said.

And I adore your icon!

black_dog @ July 15 2003, 21:02:26 UTC Re:

I may be reading into it a bit, though.

I don't know, I think that's a pretty accurate translation!