bookofjude @ August 8 2003, 02:28:53 UTC

*wibble*

nabiki @ August 8 2003, 02:30:55 UTC

Hmmm..broken towel racks, holes in Draco's bed and a disheveled Harry complete with backwards shirt.....I really am wondering if there havent been tons of trysts in the last week or two?

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 02:33:28 UTC

When when when was the backwards shirt mentioned??!!!

How did I miss that??

bookofjude @ August 8 2003, 02:33:49 UTC

BACKWARDS SHIRT?!?!?

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 02:36:59 UTC

Okay, so Draco's watch came off while he was, uh...breaking the towel rack....

Anonymous @ August 8 2003, 02:38:36 UTC

It was in his pocket. He wasn't wearing it. Maybe it's a pocket watch. :)

black_dog @ August 8 2003, 03:44:45 UTC

. . . after he was "forced" into the lavatory. What's that about?

In addition to that, there are other wierd not-quite-sexual vibes all through this post, no? (Or am I just in my own private Idaho, as usual?) There's the perfunctory suggestion that "drunken old witches" are all after him -- Doris Crockford pinches his cheeks like a child then talks about him growing a moustache, [Malcolm?] Baddock makes a very kinky proposal, Flint in effect calls him a girly-man, he avoids Susan Bones (who has recently been obsessed with whether people are gay.)

And why would he have taken his watch off? (Or if it's a pocket watch, what might he have been doing to make it fall out of his pants pocket?)

Is it a little far-fetched to think any of this is significant? Yes. But is it any odder than the idea of PS hiding by himself in a washroom for hours?

Damn this boy is strange.

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 03:48:30 UTC

But is it any odder than the idea of PS hiding by himself in a washroom for hours?

Well, that is where Harry spent all his time during the last party :)

I'm so used to suppressing my squeeage with those two, but this time I think that maybe something's really (finally!) going on!

sistermagpie @ August 8 2003, 07:10:18 UTC

My biggest problem is that I have my private spun-up stories about ps that keep interfering...when he does something that fits it I want to jump on it and say, "Ah, it's because of this!" but my story is just in my head so can hardly be considered canon!

But anyway, I've just always gotten the idea that ps doesn't like parties. (Tell me if there's something that completely contradicts this somewhere.) I got the impression from his post that he was simply overwhelmed and hid in the bathroom (from his pov he was forced). First he was sitting on the couch "sulking" in his father's words, "watching ice melt" in ps's words. Then he didn't participate in the Quidditch game, which is a little odd since there seemed to be plenty of people there with whom he'd played in the past. Perhaps there was something about this game that he didn't like (it wasn't strip Quidditch was it? Just kidding). He chalks it up to not wanting to associate with Susan. He may have just picked her name out of a hat to represent his disdain for classmates in general without targetting someone with whom he has a history.

So he stayed inside and people seemed to rather be all over him, some drunkenly coming on to him in a vague way. Doris Crockford pinched his cheeks like he was a child but then seemed to start slip into leering mode, thinking he was Lucius. Flint called him a girly boy. Warrington speered gin in his shoe (I really do think ps hates alcohol), Baddock was willing to drink it anyway. This is normal party stuff, but it may be just what he abhors.

Then he fled into the bathroom until everyone had gone. I suppose one could take a squee-inducing angle and say he was waiting to see Harry alone, but I don't think that was his point. He could have seen Harry during the party and probably gotten him alone then--Harry's not big on parties either. To me it seems like getting away from the throng of drunken, disorderly people was more important than seeing Harry. His parents, as we know, lost interest in him once they got there and assumed he'd get home on his own. (And he is 17 with an apparating license so that's perfectly fine, though many parents would probably have made a point of telling him they were leaving-ps seems to have wished they did.) He thinks enough about this to bring it up and then follows that thought by defensively complimenting them on their high class illnesses and good taste in vacations. I see his usual pattern there: he's stung at their disinterest and covers it up by proclaiming their superiority.

As for the towel rack, well who knows? He could have been up to anything in the hours he was in there. He could have even taken a shower to wash off the stench of gin. The watch is a mystery. My first thought is that he deliberately hid it for Harry to have to find and return. It's a bizarre little thing that would be perfect for ps, who's just so unable to have normal social interaction, especially with Harry. In general I think this was a bad night for ps and he went into hiding because of it (why not just apparate home? I'm not sure. He did have some friends there and may have been trying to stick it out because of that).

black_dog @ August 8 2003, 09:51:16 UTC

I love your reading. I was pretty much baffled, as you could probably tell from the above comment.

I would actually start, though, from your final point -- if he was having such a miserable time, why not just leave? Pansy was there (for a bit) and MB was in a dangerous mood until she passed her exam, but he could always simply have gone home and avoided his parents in the Manor if he wanted to be alone. So much more capacious than a washroom at Dogear.

And why was he miserable? I agree with your observation that he doesn't seem to like parties. That's interesting, since he's not really radically antisocial, he can be immensely compelling one-on-one as Seamus, at least, knows. He may be one of those people who is only truly "on" in one-on-one situations, and is a bit lost in a larger group, disoriented over which of the blur of people to perform for or how to maintain a stable persona. And I think you're right that the alcohol bothered him a lot, but I also think that if he was feeling self-conscious, there was a lot of raw material there to grate against his confused sexuality.

Oddly enough I think Harry is probably more social than PS in a situation like the party. Harry is more inclined to take people as they are and go with the flow, even if he's not loving it. And Harry had many more friends at the party, from different circles -- he would need to circulate and do them all justice, at least for a few minutes apiece. We do know from Lucius' testimony that Draco was alone for a while, and disappeared later. I can see Harry telling him "hold on while I do the social thing for a little bit, and then we'll get together." I just can't imagine that they completely failed to get together at the party, given PS' determination to stay and Harry's own nature. This is their first encounter since the end of school, after all -- it's a big deal. So the fact that PS is totally reticent about Harry, (apart from the teasing about the watch -- more on that below) is maybe suggestive in a good way.

He really does seem bitter though. You know how sometimes his insults and his disdain feel like sort of an exuberant pose, and sometimes they feel authentically unhappy. This was one of the unhappy ones. I slightly differed in your reading of his praise for his parents. I thought his description of his mother's "high-class and elegant illness" was mocking, positively insolent. And his remark about his father was as sarcastic as he dared, which admittedly isn't much.

I think he's unhappy because he's generally lonely, momentarily estranged from MB and Pansy and unable to get proper time with Harry. I do think he got some quality Harry-time at the party. If his meeting with Harry were totally unsuccessful, I don't think he would have teased him about finding the watch -- which is the one light moment in the whole post. But maybe no meeting in the middle of a party could have done justice to what he wanted or needed after a month of separation, and now he finds himself hustled off to Italy for much of August. I agree with you that the missing watch, like the missing snitch in the post a few months ago, is a kind of tangible connection that he's deliberately left behind, a guarantee he'll see Harry again. It's kind of poignant.

It would be interesting to correlate PS' occasional really ugly moods over the last few months with his encounters with Harry. What I personally would like to believe is that just he gets melancholy after sex. But that's just the "private, spun-up" story in my head.

black_dog @ August 8 2003, 10:04:36 UTC

A further thought -- I was disregarding Harry's own misery over the Remus and Sirius separation, because that really only developed after the party. But depending on the timing of Sirius and Remus' first fight over Lucius, it might have ruined Harry's mood during whatever time he and PS were able to spend together. And if PS has been in touch with Harry subsequently, or simply cares about his feelings, he may have soaked up some of Harry's unhappiness.

sistermagpie @ August 8 2003, 12:31:10 UTC

Also I guess we should wonder if he didn't witness anything going down between Lucius and Sirius? He may have been made uncomfortable watching Lucius flirt with Sirius or both his parents flirting with Snape, as they seemed to be doing.

I hadn't thought about his comments about his parents being sarcastic--you could be right! To me they almost sounded like a regression to his earlier self. "My parents must have thought I'd gone home because they didn't look/wait for me...but that's because they're very busy and fabulous people!" But you you could be right.

Ernie's post opens up the possibility that Draco was checking his watch waiting for something to happen and he might have therefore stayed for that. If, for instance, he had agreed to meet Harry in the bathroom (odd place) at a certain time he might then have gotten angry when Harry didn't show up because he was distracted by the stuff with Sirius. Thus he broke the towel rack in anger but also left his watch to get the meeting he didn't get.

But I'd like to think there's more stuff going on there beyond anything H/D. Checking one's watch at a party often just indicates you want it to be over and this seems like the rare occasion when Draco wasn't pretending to complain--he said he didn't want to go to the party and didn't enjoy himself there. You'd think he'd sound angrier at Harry if he'd been expecting to meet him, whatever Harry's problems--this would be the second time Harry didn't show up, after all. Plus why would Draco not just go looking for Harry? Or make veiled accusations about somebody ruining his night standing around in a bloody bathroom while he had fun? (Harry may post a reply that completely puts this possibility to rest.)

You can't miss the sort of painful symmetry there. Both Harry and Draco spend the night in the bathroom, only nobody notices or sleeps outside the door when it's Draco. But I didn't get from his post that he was hoping for attention by locking himself away at all. In fact he seemed to be sort of fleeing people in general.

It is still bizarre he didn't leave, though, unless his constantly taking out his watch really does something was supposed to happen at a certain time and he needed to be there for that. Could there have been a reason for him not to apparate? Too flustered? Not wanting to go home? It just reminds me of his hole at Hogwarts. He even refers to the bathroom as where he sought his "freedom," which makes me think this place was a little like the theater or the hole, a place that was "his" when he needed it that he didn't actually want to leave until he was ready.

black_dog @ August 8 2003, 17:16:59 UTC

Narcissa writes that PS had vanished "some time" before she left; since they left abruptly over the fight, I guess PS may have completely missed both the flirtation and the fight. If he did, that would mesh nicely with your point -- if he had gone off to a prearranged appointment, and the fight happened shortly thereafter, maybe Harry didn't keep the appointment because of the crisis with Sirius/Remus. PS may have been angry, but maybe he has the consideration not to harp on it in the post because he understands what Harry was going through. That wouldn't prevent him from deflecting that anger onto everyone else, of course.

I'm thinking another reason he doesn't enjoy parties is that there really aren't that many people who like him. Which would make being arond them kind of a drag. But I still think some Harry-stuff has to be kind of important in the mix. Of all the people attending the party (apart from the ones he sees every day), Harry's probably the most important to him.

I'm thinking back, and PS and JH were going through a cooler, more distant phase at the end of the school year before the attack. And yet we know that when Harry was unconscious, PS was at his bedside and very protective of him. They've been in extended suspense about working stuff out since then, with one issue after another preventing them from talking.

I don't know. You're right, a post from Harry would clear a lot up. For all that's going on with him, his extended silence reminds me a bit of the week after the outing. He's obviously very upset.

sistermagpie @ August 8 2003, 18:39:23 UTC

Harry's silence (unless he just hasn't posted yet because his player hasn't had a chance or whatever) makes me think he didn't have much to do with ps at the party. If he'd missed an appointment he would probably post an apology for missing it. Even if he'd forgotten in all the recent trouble, ps' post would remind him.

My instinct is to believe that ps's time at the party was exactly what he said it was: he came with his parents, gave Dumbledore socks, sat mostly by himself and wanted to leave, saw M.B. there (whether or not they got a chance to speak I'm not sure--she says she misses him, which may mean they didn't get a chance), he ran into that woman, he spoke to the three Slytherin guys, it was unimpressive, he retreated to the bathroom. Narcissa says he's already disappeared a while before they wanted to leave, and it seemed like the Malfoys left relatively early. Draco says by the time he came out there was nobody much there. Sounds to me this kid spent a lot of time in the bathroom!

He mentions Harry, but only with regards to telling him what to do now (look for his watch). I have a hard time believing he wouldn't have said anything at all about him if they'd gotten a chance to speak, even if it was just to say that Potter doesn't brush his hair for parties either or something. Ps usually posts about everybody he watched over the course of the evening--I half expected a story about Harry learning to smoke and how it did nothing for him.

The watch in the pocket thing is strangely intriguing. It was bothering him? That's just so...odd. I agree also with his feeling uncomfortable about parties since not many people like him. It's a little poignant after he made such a hit with his Truth About Harry Potter post. Ron hasn't given his account of the party, and he's been preoccupied with Molly, Arthur and Pansy (and now he's been Ron-napped!) but I wonder what he would say about it, since he seemed to be planning on seeing ps there.

black_dog @ August 9 2003, 09:08:12 UTC

Well, Harry finally posted last night -- PS should come by and pick up the watch, because an owl might not get there in time. Right. It sounds prearranged -- that would mesh with your sense of the oddness of PS saying the watch "bothered" him. After a month of separation, it might be nice for them to see each other at the party, but it's even nicer to arrange some one-on-one time. Without being confined to the bathroom.

And just because I can't resist being anal, I have to say I like the authority, the determination, in Harry's use of the word "should." Normally he would be more tentative -- "You might want to come by, because . . . " He's telling Draco, get the hell over here, I need to see you! And after the upsetting night he's just had, feeling neglected by Sirius and leaving to visit Remus, I bet it's going to be an important visit.

sistermagpie @ August 9 2003, 17:11:10 UTC

LOL! And PS picked up on it too, accusing Harry of being rude by telling him what to do! Which I translate to mean: Got it. I'll be over.

I hope ps can be some help to Harry here. Harry's never really had parents before, and ps, given his own history and his friends, might be able to make Harry feel better in ways Remus or Sirius couldn't. I mean, Remus and Sirius can't help but make Harry feel badly, Sirius because he's acting this way and Remus because he's hurting so much. PS's antics might be the right thing to distract him. Sometimes kids need to be with other kids.

I'd like to think they might discuss the fact that Lucius is in the middle of this, but ps might consider that off-limits. I wonder, too, if Harry read the discussion between Lucius and Narcissa that vaguely mentioned Voldemort. See, I took Lucius' line in the nraged thread very seriously about Remus being a bit in denial about Narcissa. Not that I think she's truly evil or anything, but I think she's been involved in things Remus doesn't want to know about. Plus Lucius also says his "supervisor" is always asking after Draco.

black_dog @ August 9 2003, 19:42:41 UTC Time for a Paradigm Shift?

I took Lucius' line in the nraged thread very seriously about Remus being a bit in denial about Narcissa. Not that I think she's truly evil or anything, but I think she's been involved in things Remus doesn't want to know about. Plus Lucius also says his "supervisor" is always asking after Draco.

Starting with the end, as usual! Because I think what's going on with Narcissa is pretty big. It feels like something that has the potential to shape a major plot arc, not just fill out a character. It will be fascinating to see how they play with it.

Whatever her past acquiesence in Lucius' DE activities, things are threatening to change radically after last night. Narcissa didn't simply have an ordinary spat with Lucius. She threatened him over his connections with Voldemort, and she was defiant and contemptuous of Voldemort directly -- that remark about how he'd be better off "repairing the recent damage to his business" is not going to go over well with Voldemort's rather Sicilian sense of honor. (If he's read it, of course -- perhaps he's still too much a creature of the 70's to have caught up with the internet.) Might Voldemort retaliate now against Narcissa? Would Narcissa definitively break with Lucius if she felt threatened? Or would direct action against Narcissa be too unsubtle? Perhaps Hera Peligroso will wake up with a horse's head in her bed.

In any event, the players have said that there's going to be a more explicit Voldemort plot this year, and this looks like the beginning of some major realignments in reaction to that development. It's hard to imagine someone in L's position taking threats like Narcissa's in stride -- you don't forget that sort of thing, and the L/N relationship as we know it may never be the same. I imagine the interlude in Italy is going to be even chillier that last night in the Manor.

What could this mean for Draco? Right now, Draco makes a great public show of despising his mother, while continuing to appear devoted to his father. But if the issue between them becomes more clearly about Voldemort, and it becomes harder to evade Lucius' DE connections, then Draco is going to really be in a bind. He's already tested his independence from his father, and we have no reason to think he'd have any use for being a minion of Voldemort. It's one thing to choose emotionally between L and N within the family -- L wins that one because he has more to offer PS. But if it becomes Lucius and the DE's vs. Narcissa and Remus and Harry and Dumbledore and Hogwarts, I'd be shocked if PS didn't make his first grownup choice and break from his father.

Meanwhile, at Harry's house, we're all so indulgent of everyone's emotional complexity that it's hard to muster up a proper sense of outrage, not simply disappointment, toward Sirius. I mean, the attack on Hogwarts changes everything. Lucius is no longer just an unruly relic of Sirius' past -- the organization Lucius belongs to nearly killed Harry only a month ago. I can see Harry looking at Sirius and thinking: OK, your kink is to be used sexually by a leader of the team that murdered your friends/my parents and is actively trying to murder me. And you're prepared to sacrifice our family for him. Unimpressed, Sirius, unimpressed.

So Harry's facing a realignment, too -- perhaps he's in for an emotional separation from Sirius that parallels what physically happened in OOTP, only less brutally. Can Remus or Harry ever properly trust Sirius again, or has he, like Narcissa taken a definitive step over the line (though in his case, in the wrong direction)?

In the new alignment that may result, you'd end up with a bizarre and fascinating extended family at the core of both Harry and Draco's emotional life and tending to push H and D closer together -- a "family" centering on Remus, Narcissa, and Snape. H and D would be challenged in interesting ways to make sense of this weird network of loyalties. Outside the circle, you'd have Sirius and Lucius creating tensions and conflicted feelings for Harry and Draco respectively.

I don't know, this is mad speculation and who knows where the players will take it. But it's fun to think about and I think there are some hints that things may be heading in this direction.

sistermagpie @ August 10 2003, 09:23:08 UTC Re: Time for a Paradigm Shift?

Oh man, so many things to be happening here! You're totally right about the strange family dynamics and oddly enough, there's Harry and Draco right in the middle!

I'd definitely be worried about Draco having to choose Lucius over Narcissa. Lucius has very carefully raised Draco to do exactly as he wants him to do, including supporting Voldemort, while Narcissa wasn't looking. The kind of psychological pressure he seems to have put on Draco over the years may be very hard to break. I'm not a psychologist but there does seem to be a really serious dynamic going on in this family where Lucius is the power and Draco acts out against Narcissa even thought she's the "nice one." Lucius clearly knows this--his last post to Narcissa basically reminds her of just that. I feel like both Draco and Lucius have this attitude that Narcissa "had her chance" somewhere and blew it. Hopefully Draco will get over this.

Harry understandably seems drawn to Lupin over Sirius right now. I have a feeling Sirius is very difficult to be with at the moment, not just because of what he's done but because he's probably giving out self-destructive vibes that make Harry uncomfortable. Things like trips to the beach, which once would have been so fun, now probably have a hint of anger and desperation to them. Also Harry has, as you've pointed out, now had his eyes opened to just how self-destructive Sirius can be. (Actually, I've been sensing a little underlying desperation to Harry's family for a while now, before the thing with Sirius.)

I'm still not really able to figure out exactly what is going on with Sirius. I'm also not really sure exactly where Narcissa stands. Is she rebelling against what Voldemort stands for? I'm not sure. She may still see this in personal terms. If that's the case then realistically she could be in trouble. I don't think it's quite so easy to opt out of the DE circle. Even though Lucius is clearly the bigger villain here, we've no way of knowing what kind of things Narcissa has supported in her more pleasant and passive way. Lupin likes to think she's just completely clueless but one can decide to turn a blind eye to things to get what one wants.

Draco has shown he does understand who Lucius is involved with and that this involves him as well. He's also showing a few signs that he's starting to put together exactly what this means as Harry's friend. I don't see how, after this past year, Draco would truly be able to support someone who wants to kill Harry or even Ron for that matter. He obviously didn't have the stomach for Death Eating even before that. At this point I think the only thing drawing him towards V's side is Lucius and unfortunately that's a big draw. The biggest draw on the other side, I'd say, is Harry rather than Narcissa. Harry and Lucius have both been constant in ways I don't think he trusts her to be. Narcissa is able to play both sides in ways that Draco would not be able to do.

nabiki @ August 8 2003, 02:38:30 UTC

It was in Narcissa's post, on Harry's birthday. I noticed it but I wasn't sure if it was of great import...but, it IS rather suspicious. Harry doesnt strike me as the type that would put his shirt on backwards to SLEEP. Does he?

PLUS it was right after Draco apparated, and we don't know to where, exactly. Could he have popped in for a quick snog? Or am I just batty ;P

Anonymous @ August 8 2003, 02:39:35 UTC

I don't think so...he apparated as soon as he realized where she was going so there could really only have been like five minutes between when Narcissa saw Draco and when she saw Harry.

swallowaspider @ August 8 2003, 02:41:33 UTC

If he'd just woken up, mightn't he have pulled the shirt on backwards in his half-asleep stupor?

nabiki @ August 8 2003, 02:43:33 UTC

True! I sometimes I forget that guys might sleep with their shirts off :P

Reading harry potter has gotten me into the habit of reading really far into things sometimes, analysing every little bit like "well, if they put that in, there must be something behind it!!"

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 02:42:29 UTC

Ohh yes. Thank you!

I remember that. At the time I just chalked it up to his depression...like he wasn't really caring too much.

I love the "I expect I'll be needing to find my watch prior to going on holiday, so Potter, you might want to get on that immediately." He SO wants to see Harry again before he leaves.

This reminds me of when he left his Snitch at Harry's. It's SO an excuse to see him again!

nabiki @ August 8 2003, 02:44:43 UTC

He is quite the coy flirt, I suppose!!!

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 02:53:28 UTC

Mmmhmm!

Now my fear is that Draco is finally interested in Harry, but Harry's going to be too preoccupied with his family's problems to notice!!

Anonymous @ August 8 2003, 22:40:49 UTC

I'm afraid so. Why does everything have to be so difficult for Draco and Harry? Look at Charlie and Seamus, after spending a day together, suddenly they've become a couple with a lots of sweet activities.
For Draco and Harry, sometimes I thought it's just a hallucination.

Anonymous @ August 8 2003, 22:43:30 UTC

charlie and seamus, though, would have no reason to hide their relationship. harry and draco do so i think it's pretty unlikely they're going to post about it in the middle of their ljs.

Anonymous @ August 8 2003, 23:07:22 UTC

I'm not even certain what kind of JH and PS' relationship actually is, platonic or romantic? What is the state of their relationship at the moment? Is Draco asexual or something?

black_dog @ August 8 2003, 23:36:39 UTC

One, two, three times $64,000 equals $192,000 worth of questions.

kat99999 @ August 8 2003, 03:38:44 UTC

I would really and completely love to know how that towel rack got broken.

*stares* Just the image it provokes it enough to keep me happy. :-D

saffronlie @ August 8 2003, 06:31:26 UTC

Thoughts of bathroom action are enticing, but this could go either way. I mean, I once broke someone's toilet-roll-holder while at a party, and it wasn't because I was pressed up against it in a fit of passion, I was just drunk.

Ssshh. I still haven't told the host that it was me.

kat99999 @ August 8 2003, 17:13:19 UTC

Ah, being drunk is always another possibility! I can't count the stupid things I've done... *cough* Alas, as much amusement as a drunk!Draco would bring, I think I'd like to stick with my original "Horny-Harry-forces-him-against-wall" theory! And I shall say no more, being that this is a family group. lmfao *grin*

blue_lightning @ August 8 2003, 10:12:14 UTC hm....

is there any particular reason why he put links on the names he did? Why not link Millicent along with the rest?

...

this isn't some new code I'm not following, is it? o_O

tabiji @ August 8 2003, 11:09:54 UTC Re: hm....

He did link M.B. Actually he did a link for everyone that he mentioned (who keeps a journal).

It's an interesting observation, because looking back through the last couple of months, he doesn't ordinarily bother with name links.

Now, does that mean that for some reason he was putting a lot more effort or care into this post? Or is it a fluke?

saffronlie @ August 8 2003, 19:13:27 UTC Re: hm....

I thought he might be mocking those who always put the links in, like Lisa. But then, he'd probably have gone out of his way to link every single person mentioned, every single time he mentioned them.

dragynville @ August 8 2003, 17:52:04 UTC

Don't mind me.. late to the party since my internet's been wonky for the last three days.

Anyway..

My take on the post is that he was forced into a lavatory by Harry, that he broke the towel rack whilst snogging with Harry, and that he lost his watch (which was in [his] pocket remember) when either his robe or pants came off (depending upon what he was wearing). :D :D :D

And the part about wanting Harry to find it immediately is highly reminiscent of when Harry had his snitch. *waggles eyebrows*

onthehillside @ August 8 2003, 19:24:48 UTC

As a newbie, I must confess I don't know about the snitch incident. Can anyone give me a date/link. Thanks!

onthehillside @ August 8 2003, 19:47:30 UTC Nevermind.

I have found it. Thanks anyway!