akutenshi2007 @ Deleted Deleted

Deleted

zionsstarfish @ August 30 2003, 00:03:13 UTC

Lupin's subject line is from a U2 song :D! Yay Google!

theantimodel @ August 30 2003, 00:03:27 UTC

Well I can't say for sure that it was Bono, but Lupin's title for the post Until you crossed the line of grace is a line from the U2 song "Please".

akutenshi2007 @ August 30 2003, 00:03:55 UTC

why do think it was Bono?

i've seen Lupin use references to U2 music, so wouldn't he know if it was them or not?

akutenshi2007 @ August 30 2003, 00:06:13 UTC

im feeling stupid now, i deleted that because i was trying to refrase myself, and now you've both answered me ^^;;;;

the lyrics referencing would be a good way to think that it was Bono. please excuse my stupidity, its far too late, and im off to bed now.

delirieuse @ August 30 2003, 00:23:02 UTC

I just love Lupin's interpretive dance! Do you think he'll come over to NrAged one day and show us?

selene_rain @ August 30 2003, 01:34:04 UTC

Am I the only one who is both totally happy that things are going well and that they had a great time and find it all painfully adorable, but also terribly sad that Sirius wasn't there, didn't take Harry to his first concert, and wasn't commenting on him singing off-key?

I know August is almost over, and I don't want to rain on anyone's U2 Parade, but this all feels so wrong to me. It doesn't just make me sad but uneasy as well, and I don't even really know why. Thoughts? Ponderings? Accusations of me being a party-pooper and compulsive worrier?

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 01:37:03 UTC

Your icon is making me blush, man. <3

Also, *thumbsup.*

selene_rain @ August 30 2003, 01:43:42 UTC

Oh I love you to cute little blushing pieces! <3<3<3<3<3

Also, *hug, kiss, cling, weep, wibble, plead*

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 01:44:16 UTC Cranes = death.

THANK YOU LUPIN, FOR MAKING YOUR COMMENT PAGE OLD SCHOOL.

I don't much have anything insightful to say (not that I ever do), just that Snape and Lupin's dynamic is becoming overwhelmingly fascinating. And, paper cranes! Yay!

eponis @ August 30 2003, 02:16:07 UTC

::seconds about the comments page, and hopes that others will follow suit::

About the dynamic: yes. A few nice things I noticed:

- By the end, Snape was so totally being flirtatious. I mean, really, bringing up the cranes?
- They were actually having a serious conversation, which was interesting on several levels. They're obviously comfortable with criticizing each other and being criticized; although both were somewhat irritated due to a genuine disagreement, they were also open to real debate on the issue.
- They seem . . . comfortable with each other's lives. Lupin talks about Snape's personal quarters, and Snape talks about Lupin's family.
- They demonstrate patience. When Lupin appears somewhat hurt ("your Slytherin is showing"), Snape responds by softening his tone and trying to explain, rather than becoming defensive.

Really, Snape in this mood is . . . refreshing. He's in character as himself (he doesn't give in intellectually or coddle emotionally), but he's also increasingly comfortable just talking with Lupin. And what they both need right now is someone to be comfortable with.

Geh. It almost makes me wish that school wasn't starting, as fewer of these conversations will occur online. :-)

loony_moony @ Deleted Deleted

Deleted

eponis @ August 30 2003, 12:35:43 UTC

Dude, your icon = fabulous. Princess Bride and LotR-parody, all in one!

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 01:46:37 UTC yup, Bono!

U2 was in Leeds August 28 1997


http://www.openix.com/~dprb/OfficialTourDates.html

cereal @ August 30 2003, 02:03:55 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

I am ASTOUNDED at the level of research that goes into N_A and eNrAged. You guys are like, the people in lecture that make me look bad because not only did you actually read the assigned chapter, you read the footnotes and sources too. *grins in her doofy awe and pats you all collectively on the back*

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 02:13:35 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

dude, it's all about the google!

(hm, although i did search for about a half an hour until i realized the concert happened 6 years ago. heh, then it was easy!)

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:19:19 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

heh. I was considering looking up that too, but I was too lazy to find a site that had a good gigography for U2. It's sick how you don't even much think about how strange it is to look up all these things. Or at least I don't anymore. It's all second-nature now.

I salute you

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 16:26:25 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

*salutes you back for your grueling work looking at pretty boys and making seamus icons!

and, you know, all the other crazy things we do....
;)

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 17:12:13 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

#gasp#

My mask of anonymity. So people really notice that I randomly waste like four hours reading old threads and posting theories taht never work out and making iconz that people don't want and spamming my friendzlist and being a postwhore on NrAged? This is embarrassing. If I had any shame I might be inclined to blush

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 18:35:59 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

dude, only because i loved that one row of seamus icons you made... no embarrasment, we all rock!

and our motto shall be:
"welcome to nraged. please leave your sense of shame for being a dork at the door. feel free to waste lots of time. enjoy!"

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 18:37:55 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

I announced our motto already, stealing it from Block Island, it is, "The beatings will continue until morale is improved"

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 19:15:54 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

ok, that works too!
:)

(maybe morale will improve once august is over?)

selene_rain @ August 30 2003, 02:34:08 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

Haha, exactly. Every time little things like this are discovered, it amazes me that they'd put so much work into something that likely would have never even been checked out by anyone. (Points to mimulus_arbutus for being so thorough!)
Your icon is the coolest thing ever.

mimulus_arbutus @ August 30 2003, 16:31:57 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

it was late, i couldn't sleep.... what else was there to do but research obscure bits of info from NA?
heh

selene_rain @ August 30 2003, 16:34:09 UTC Re: yup, Bono!

And what else do we care about enough to do that late at night? Not much.

childofatlantis @ August 30 2003, 02:45:42 UTC

there's a chance that it wasn't Bowie at all, or 1976, or even in London...

Okay, so who else is hoping Sirius is going to chip in with a comment on when, where and who it _actually_ was?

lazy_daze @ August 30 2003, 05:46:37 UTC

Oh, I hope so...

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 07:53:56 UTC

I realise it's not very Quidditch of me

LMAO



I agree...I'm glad Remus and Harry are getting along and are cheerful, but I miss Sirius. BLUPIN! Don't make me say it again! Can't they hurry up and get back together already. Grrrr...

Re: the Snape/Lupin dynamic. I do think it's interesting and in its own way kind of cute, but I do NOT want to see Snupin. No Snupin!

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:17:43 UTC

#waves the Lupin/Snape flag#

I don't know that Sirius is the right person for Remus. I don't think it can LAST being the point. If they dissolve their marriage such a short time after being wed... it's... well, doomed I'd say. Those first few months they really ought to be completely wrapped up in one another's company. Especially since Sirius was dragged away on assignment for so long. It should've been bliss. I think, now, that as intense as their history and their relationship are they will continually fight with the same intensity. And... I just don't know that Lupin wants that. Could handle living like that forever.

#has just woken up# so, sorry for my poor articulation.

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 08:28:22 UTC

I see what you're saying. But it's just that both have said, post-separation, though not recently :s, that each was in love with the other. I know that isn't always enough. But that's my OTP! Waaaaaaaaah. Ok, I have two OTPs. Whatever. :D Yeah, they do have a history and I do think it's really pathetic that this has happened in such a short time. To be honest...I'm prepared for the rotten vegetables, just so you know...I blame Lupin for the present state of things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the last glimmer of hope we really had about this relationship when Sirius went to Remus to apologize? I've been really busy the past week and only skimmed things a lot of the time so I may have missed something. True, Sirius didn't really know what he was apologizing for. However, given that, I'm thinking that if in his own eyes Sirius did nothing wrong, specifically, have sex with Lucius (or anyone else for that matter), then I'm willing to bet that he didn't. Also I think the whole "If you don't know then I'm not telling you" attitude is extremely childish. And now it seems that Harry has chosen Remus over Sirius, and I just feel so sorry for Padfoot! :'(

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:37:55 UTC

I don't know how I feel about how Harry's been treating Lupin and Black. We obviously don't know more than a glimpse to the whole story, but I don't like the idea that Harry thinks that he has to choose.

And, now that I think on it, maybe Sirius and Lupin have been quietly fighting for Harry to take their side. Sirius takes Harry to the beach, Lupin takes him to a concert. Not that I think the two of them don't love Harry, and would take him places anyway... but I can also see it being an added bonus. Having Harry take your side in a fight of this magnitude must be important.

And I mean, it's not like I think Lupin is going to race into a new relationship. He was just married a few months ago, and happily so. That must leave him a little jaded on the everlasting commitment factor. And to add to the point, he'll be seeing his estranged spouse on a daily basis once he's back at Hogwarts

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 08:48:01 UTC

Yeah, the whole love games thing has really pissed me off, and I'm even more upset that Harry bought into it. Or it seems he has. While Remus was drama queening his way into Harry's good graces this past week by posting the same thing ever five minutes, Sirius had to suffer alone. But I'm hoping that since they WILL see each other on a daily basis now they'll HAVE to talk about things. And hopefully work them out *crosses fingers*

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 11:42:59 UTC

I think for me I just can't help but react semi-negatively to Remus' postings of how happy he and Harry all the time. Not that Remus should have to consider Sirius everytime he posts or anything but yeah, all of these posts always make me a little uncomfortable: Me and Harry went drinking and had so much fun. Me and Harry went to a concert and had so much fun. Harry's kicking me and it's so much fun. It sometimes reminds me of a girl I was friends with in jr. high who got to be be almost-friends with the popular people and she never missed a chance to talk about the super coolness of their friendship.

Also, sometimes I step back and wonder at how adorable Harry always is as seen through Lupin's eyes. He just sounds very different than he often does in his own posts or in posts where he's described by others. He's jumping up and down and singing off-key and going sleepy-boo in the car. I'm not saying Remus is making up lies about Harry of course, just that it's quite a difference.

I don't know why it makes me uncomfortable, though. I guess I'm with selene_rain who said it just feels wrong. I'm trying to figure out if I'm just reacting to how Sirius would have to feel reading about how happy Harry and Remus are just the two of them--remember how when Sirius took Harry to the beach he said he felt Harry didn't really want to be there. Objectively it's Sirius' own fault that he's not there because of Lucius but I guess I still feel like Remus has complete control of all the PR in this situation. Most of our information comes through him, the only real hints we've ever gotten that Remus could be at all at fault, for me, were Harry's comments on the Q&A.

I can't help but be a little uncomfortable too at how easy it is to start thinking about Remus/Snape. Not because I don't see the possibilities in the couple or because S/R is even my OTP, just because this is a marriage that Remus just possibly dissolved and there seems something very off about responding to that with, "Well, I guess they weren't right for each other. I think he should go out with Snape now!" It's not that I think that people here are wrong to think that way because I think the text gives good reasons for it, but if it's that simple then maybe Remus didn't care for Sirius personally as much as a husband should. Normally I'd think maybe Remus was in some denial here by making his life sound so rosy but it doesn't quite seem like that. After all, he went dramatically to pieces for a while.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 12:15:15 UTC

<3

eponis @ August 30 2003, 12:31:19 UTC

That's a really good observation re: the "adorable-Harry" descriptions. I don't see it as Remus trying to show up Sirius, though; I see it as a manifestation of how Lupin (as he has himself admitted) thinks of Harry as the son he'll never have. In fact, the fact that he's not officially Harry's anything could be why he's more focused on him. Whereas Sirius is, in the words of OOtP, part father and part best-friend, Lupin's affection is definitely closer to the parent who's fascinated by every adorable thing that their child does, especially when that child could easily be lost. (His attitude may make Harry more comfortable with being silly, which could be another reason why Lupin mentions it more often.)

Agreed about the Remus/Snape. The rapidity of the RL/SS/SB timeframe in general unsettles me, though. Sirius broke up with Snape and, only a month or two later, was very together with Lupin. Five months later, they're married; three months later, they're effectively divorced. Of course, part of what made the Sirius/Remus romance move so rapidly was the preestablished relationship, but some of that is present with Snape and Lupin; they've been flirting, even intimate, since the spring. I totally agree that at this point Snape would be a rebound partner, which could seriously damage things in the long run if they do engage in something, but I don't think it's surprising how quickly earlier friendship and flirting took center stage.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 12:48:34 UTC

yeah well i don't think there is anything malicious to any of it. it sounds to me like remus is just trying to make up to harry for a really lousy summer and apologise for having made a mistake that made harry suffer along with him. and maybe sirius needs to realise what he's missing out on by being an ass and putting his selfish needs over the safety of his own godson. we don't know what happened but he sure sounded damn guilty during the whole narcissa/lucius thing, and if he did what it sounds like he did then he deserves to be miserable and to lose his family because obviously he has his own agenda and it doesn't include being faithful to anyone ever. since that is how he is i cant feel sorry for him. i pity him the way i would an alcoholic who cant see how his own selfishness are destroying the people around him. its sick and sirius needs to understand that even if it hurts.

and i think remus sees harry as nobody else does because remus can appreciate that harry's just your basic normal kid and not TBWL or just an appendage to draco or the saviour of the world or the boy who can do no wrong or whatever else everyone thinks of him as. harry just seems more comfortable with remus to be able to be who he really is instead of feeling like he has to be who everyone else needs him to be. so thats why we see harry differently through remus's eyes because he isn't different at all. he is himself and its everybody else who can't deal with that because they cant see him past their own expectations of him. i don't think people are giving him enough credit to be able to think for himself. he can read what we read so you know if we think sirius fucked lucius then it is entirely possible that he does too. can you imaine how that would feel if it were the guy who is supposed to be your dad and best friend who betrayed you like that?

peccavium @ August 30 2003, 13:21:49 UTC hope, trust, comfort.

WHOA!!!

Let's take a moment for some serious sirius aplogetics, please.

I think you have the right to feel and express that, I quote:
maybe sirius needs to realise what he's missing out on by being an ass and putting his selfish needs over the safety of his own godson and he deserves to be miserable and to lose his family because obviously he has his own agenda and it doesn't include being faithful to anyone ever.

I find it assumptive and incorrectly so to say that Sirius doesn't realize what he's missing out on. He's been continuously despondent since the proverbial shit hit the fan, and take a look at this comment, where he makes it plain he knows exactly what he's missing out on.

No one deserves to be miserable, or to lose their family, and I think Harry would agree with me there.

Sirius knows he did wrong, and apart from Severus' chiding, he usually seems repentant for it. To some it may seem that Sirius "cant see how his own selfishness are destroying the people around him", but... I feel like everyone's doing pretty well. It's a hard time for everyone, but really, in all of this- Sirius is hurting the worst. He has nothing, now.

for Sirius- I have no words of comfort, but Dumas does-

All human wisdom is summed up in two words - wait and hope.

Hang in there, nrAgers and players. The best we can do is wait and hope.

eponis @ August 30 2003, 13:36:01 UTC

Word.

I agree one hundred percent with the "nobody deserves that kind of pain" comment. Sirius didn't deserve Azkaban. Saying that he deserves this situation is, to me, like saying that a depressed person deserves to lose all her friends and family after pushing them away.

Nevertheless, it is important not to go too far in the opposite direction. The frustrating thing about Sirius, to me and (so it seems) to Lupin, isn't that he has done a couple of stupid things, because, as you say, he seems to genuinely repent and feel terrible about those things. It's that he keeps on going back and doing these things over and over again. Until he can learn to break out of these self-destructive cycles, he can't be the kind of partner and godfather that Remus and Harry need. Sirius's attitude (as exemplified in his newest post) seems to be "if I apologize again and wish for the best, everything will be okay." It's not always that easy, and Sirius needs to learn that.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 15:20:26 UTC Re: hope, trust, comfort.

i know this isn't a popular opinion but i just hate to see people excusing sirius for what he's done. this isn't like azkaban. he wasn't guilty when that happened. but he is guilty now and he knows it and he *did it anyway*. that's what makes this so hard to accept. he knew he was hurting people who love him and he just went ahead and did it anyway. how can anyone excuse that?

this isn't book 5 sirius at all to me. this isn't even vaguely canon sirius because that sirius would (and did) die for Harry's sake, not go out and sleep with the guy who works for the guy who not only wants to kill harry but killed harry's parents and sirius's best friend. there's something so wrong with that.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 13:35:11 UTC

and i think remus sees harry as nobody else does because remus can appreciate that harry's just your basic normal kid and not TBWL or just an appendage to draco or the saviour of the world or the boy who can do no wrong or whatever else everyone thinks of him as. harry just seems more comfortable with remus to be able to be who he really is instead of feeling like he has to be who everyone else needs him to be.

That really discredits Ron and Hermione and Mrs. Weasley and everyone else. I also think Remus happens to see Harry as James's child. He makes entries about how odd it was to sit on the Hogwarts Express with Sirius and Harry and how it was almost like...

I don't think Ron and Hermione see Harry as TBWL. I don't think that Remus is the person Harry has been waiting for all his life to understand him. That's really harsh to everyone else. And yeah, the TBWL thing probably is in the back of Ron and Hermione's minds, but if that damns them and makes them not as good for Harry as Remus is, then you also have to keep in mind the fact that Remus knew Harry as James's son first, just like Ron and Hermione knew him as TBWL first.

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 15:10:39 UTC

That really discredits Ron and Hermione and Mrs. Weasley and everyone else. I also think Remus happens to see Harry as James's child.

Good point--nobody has completely selfless relationships with anyone. Harry means different things to many people. Everybody who cares about him "wants" something from him because that's human nature. If they didn't get something out of the relationship they'd just be pleasantly indifferent.

The word "drama queen" gets used a lot with Lupin and I see why, but I also don't think he fits the really negative use of that word. Like, some people are drama queens because they create problems just for attention and for, well, drama.

Remus doesn't do that. I feel sometimes it's more that he just throws himself into whatever thing he's going through at any given point because he's going to lose it eventually. Like when he has a nice evening with Harry he writes about it passionately and maybe imbues it with more emotion than it really had because it is very important to him. His post about the concert, for instance, is almost like a snapshot, like he's saying: this was real. I was happy. It's so wonderful I have this right now. All these small things he never thought he'd have are amazing to him.

The darkness I always feel about it isn't that I think Remus is lying or putting on a show but that I feel like he still tries a little too hard because he feels like it's all going to disappear. Or something. That's maybe why I can see the point behind S/R because Sirius seems to feel that way too. He just deals with it in a more openly destructive way.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 15:18:26 UTC

it might be harsh but this is how i see canon as well. ron's shown his jealousy over everything he thinks harry's lucky to be and to have, and hermione seems to have some rather lofty expectations for harry to live up to everything he is in the books she's read. actually you have a point, mum weasley might be one who can see harry for what he is but at the same time she coddles him as some poor little orphan who can't handle anything going on around him. so even that is detrimental to harry's well being if someone's always mothering him as if she personally has to make up for his lost time. everybody has an agenda where harry is concerned. even dumbledore does because he sees harry's life as something to be planned out. harry rails against this in book 5 and so that is where i am coming from.

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 16:21:30 UTC

But I don't think things like Ron showing jealousy is wrong. Ron *is* jealous (though I found Book V's resigned Ron a little sad) and Hermione has high expectations. This is the way they are with anyone, not just Harry. Just because they're not always saying what Harry wants to hear doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong.

The fact is that everyone has an agenda all the time, including Harry. Harry IS TBWL so everybody deals with him that way, including Remus. That's not always a plus for, say, Ron: it can suck being the best friend of TBWL but railing about it for either of them is a waste of time. Neither boy should be expected to be the perfect friend all the time. That Ron sometimes gets angry about the situation, to me, is a good sign for the friendship. If he only saw Harry as a celebrity he'd be more of a sychophant.

That's why it's interesting to me that you'd say Molly Weasley was possibly the person who cares about him--both her and Remus are looking at him as a parent. That's not the kind of relationship Harry would or should expect from everyone. Why would Ron be proud of Harry for growing into a fine young man etc.? The only other character Harry has any business expecting this sort of thing from is Sirius who has, obviously, failed miserably at it. Asking for this kind of thing from Ron, Hermione and the other kids is asking for special treatment, not friendship imo.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 19:50:58 UTC

i never said that mrs weasley was "the person who cares about him," i said she could see him for what he is and nothing more or less. i think his friends do care about him but i think everyone has their own idea of who and what harry should be. maybe remus does to, he could see harry as an extension of all the friendships he's lost. but i just think he is able to be more objective about harry because they have a lot more in common than people realize. people judge the both of them by something they didn't ask for and didn't have any control over. they are both cursed with something that affects everything in their lives. they have both lost so much and now they have both been betrayed so naturally there'd be some understanding in there i think.

i personally think ron expected that befriending the boy who lived might have made him stand out more in the long line of weasleys. like some of that spotlight/scar might have rubbed off. and i still think hermione thinks of harry as another thing to be studied and learned about. that isn't to say that they aren't his friends but like i said everybody has an ulterior motive when it comes to harry. i just think that out of anybody he knows he can find empathy in remus, someone who knows what it is like to live with something you can't control and who knows what it is like to have someone you thought you knew turn out to be nothing like you had hoped he would.

we will just have to agree to disagree. at this point nothing sirius can say or do is ever going to validate what he's put remus and more importantly harry through. he has to be so disappointed now.

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 13:36:35 UTC

I don't think there's anything malicious in it either. It doesn't at all seem like anything like Remus to post things with the express purpose of hurting Sirius with them. Not only would that be petty in ways I don't think Remus is but it would be using Harry.

and i think remus sees harry as nobody else does because remus can appreciate that harry's just your basic normal kid and not TBWL or just an appendage to draco or the saviour of the world or the boy who can do no wrong or whatever else everyone thinks of him as.

I'm not sure who's you're critcizing with this. That's quite a slam on every other character in NA. Are Ron and Hermione suddenly people who only see Harry as a savior or TBWL or an appendage to Draco (and honestly, who in NA sees him as that??). I agree that Remus cares about Harry but I really don't see when he's proven himself to have put all the other people who care about Harry to shame. Everybody makes mistakes with each other at times but I think plenty of other characters have shown despite that they are very good friends to Harry.

harry just seems more comfortable with remus to be able to be who he really is instead of feeling like he has to be who everyone else needs him to be. so thats why we see harry differently through remus's eyes because he isn't different at all. he is himself and its everybody else who can't deal with that because they cant see him past their own expectations of him.

That's a pretty big leap to make and again a slam on all the other friends Harry has. He can't be himself with Ron? With Hermione? Who is he pretending to be with Draco? Or Seamus? Or Molly? Or Ginny? Again, I just don't see Remus doing anything all that different than many of Harry's other friends. Where are you getting this interpretation that Harry is somehow "himself" with Remus while struggling with a facade with every other character?

he can read what we read so you know if we think sirius fucked lucius then it is entirely possible that he does too. can you imaine how that would feel if it were the guy who is supposed to be your dad and best friend who betrayed you like that?

Yes, but what's your point? This isn't about how Harry should be with Sirius now so why are you even bringing it up?

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 13:00:38 UTC

dramatically

Keyword there. Now, I love Remus, I absolutely do. But yes. He is being the biggest drama queen on the face of the...er...well...fandom earth?! lol

I think the whole Snupin thing is disturbing because it does seem pretty obvious at this point. I hope it doesn't happen. Snape can go off with Lucius like a good pureblooded Slytherin should. *ahem* But yeah, the Snape/Lupin interaction lately has been almost playful and I don't like it. Not one bit. I like Snape. I like Lupin. I just don't like Snupin.

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 14:01:08 UTC

wah *agrees*

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 17:39:24 UTC

Also, sometimes I step back and wonder at how adorable Harry always is as seen through Lupin's eyes. He just sounds very different than he often does in his own posts or in posts where he's described by others. He's jumping up and down and singing off-key and going sleepy-boo in the car. I'm not saying Remus is making up lies about Harry of course, just that it's quite a difference.


I was wondering just now, if there's not a possibility that Harry might be playing into this role that Lupin sees him in as well. We know how ragged and despondent Lupin had become after the breakup..... I'd imagine Harry keeps this in mind, and I wouldn't be shocked if Harry was putting in that extra effort to be taht much more giddy, and childlike, and... I don't know

eponis @ August 30 2003, 12:17:57 UTC

I totally second your wish that Sirius and Remus get to talk more when they start back at Hogwarts. If nothing else, the only person with whom Sirius has really been talking is Lucius, and he needs healthier influences. At the moment, he's been feeling so alienated that I'm almost worried about what he could do in reaction.

However, I don't think you're giving Remus or Harry enough credit for their actions and understanding of the situation. Yes, Remus is the sort of person to go self-pitying and melancholy when he's in pain, but at the moment, frankly, he has the right. After putting months (years) of love and time into this relationship, it's at a point that looks irreparably damaged, at least for the forseeable future. I mean, I'd be more worried if Lupin's heart wasn't broken! (This, incidentally, is exactly what Sirius looks like; although he complains about being alone, he evidently ran straight to Lucius after Remus left, which is hardly the action of someone whose full desires are bent on reconciliation.)

Yes, of course it's touching to see Remus in such pain, and I'm sure that Harry's not immune to it. But just as Remus doesn't have to be a "drama queen" to be genuinely hurt, Harry doesn't have to "buy into" a deception to decide that Remus has been a more trustworthy parent. Actually, lupercus just updated his memories, and I was looking through and saw this (scroll down to the bottom for Harry's newly added and, um, rather blunt comment). Harry's seventeen, legally of age, and smart enough to realize that this isn't just a "which godfather is nicer?" contest. If nothing else, his courage in running away, even from Lupin, shows that he's not blindly taking Remus's side in this separation. (In his Q&A answers, you could even see that he blames Lupin for some of the mess.)

Quite honestly, Remus has been a better parent. While I think that Sirius has been completely in-character with his actions, and that they're even understandable when you consider his history, he has flirted with (and now slept with) a man who has tried repeatedly to kill his godson. One of the main reasons why Remus was so adamant about ending the relationship was Harry, not just jealousy, and that kind of concern is something that Sirius has not consistently shown. Harry isn't being duped by choosing Lupin. He's being more sensible than most of the actors in a very difficult situation.

zionsstarfish @ August 30 2003, 12:28:20 UTC

Actually, lupercus just updated his memories, and I was looking through and saw this (scroll down to the bottom for Harry's newly added and, um, rather blunt comment).

O_O

(great catch, btw! I hope to have something more coherent to say when I have located my eyeballs, which are currently on the floor someplace.)

theantimodel @ August 30 2003, 12:36:17 UTC

Eeep! I agree completely about the whole this is not a whose nicer contest. but d00d I can't even concentrate after reading that comment! Woe!

Anonymous @ August 30 2003, 12:49:22 UTC

*gigantic gold stars*

theantimodel @ August 30 2003, 22:18:07 UTC

I am so confused. Is this a player star or is it not? Because in the past players have used an actual star .gif and now there's the a_player account and this is just too confusing for me. Any chance we could get some clarification, or an across the board usage of the a_player account?

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 13:10:25 UTC

Holy shit to Harry's comment :|

That post is a year old right? :o Geez...

I have to comment on the music...I made this icon last night. I haven't seen that post before. Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

I don't know what to think at the moment. I know I'm forcing canon and fanon opinions to combine in my mind at the moment. I'm gonna have to go read up on NA as I've just gotten back in and have seen these replies in my mailbox before actually coming onto LJ, so yeah...but...holy shit.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(

**I do not wibble. I waaaaaaah.**

zionsstarfish @ August 30 2003, 13:33:43 UTC

Sirius' post is a year old... Harry's reply is about a day old. O_O

*still cannot find eyeballs*

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 14:45:20 UTC

Yeah, that's what I meant. :( Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 13:46:58 UTC

Woo-hoo! Go Harry! Re: that comment. And also word to this. Harry isn't being played here, he knows what he's doing. The first action he took in this situation was to move into his own apartment, thus taking himself out of the child's role. He's now someone who's choosing who to spend his time with and if it's Remus, well, of course it's not Sirius!

Remus and Harry didn't just get back together after all, they had a big fight about things first.

Also, Sirius hadn't yet posted when I made my first comment but I'd have to say his, "Harry, I know you don't care..." is much more in line with trying to be manipulative. Sirius isn't above having a "poor me" attitude and never has been--this is part of his problem. Frankly, I think it would be very good for Harry and Sirius to have a confrontation where Harry tells him exactly how he feels about him seeing Lucius. I'll bet James would have.

black_dog @ August 30 2003, 14:59:28 UTC

This is probably too obvious for commenting, but I think the significance of the post Harry chose to comment on is that it's one where Sirius acknowledges Lucius' making direct threats to Harry. So Harry is saying to Sirius: you know exactly what this is about, you know exactly why I won't tolerate this, and you have no excuses.

sistermagpie @ August 30 2003, 16:15:48 UTC

Not too obvious to Sirius. This seems to be exactly the thing he keeps trying to avoid dealing with!

black_dog @ August 30 2003, 17:59:43 UTC

Avoidance is a big note in Sirius' character, I think. I know the NrAged threads can't be evidence of plot, but maybe they can be evidence of character -- my own question for jadedsirius was to ask him what he thought of Lucius, whether he beleived he was really determined to harm Harry. Just to sort of draw out Sirius' reflections on Lucius as an objective menace. His answer was a joke about Lucius "being good with his mouth" -- a total evasion of the issue.

One of the interesting things about the post Harry chose is that it shows Sirius did, at one time, have some moral clarity about Lucius, and was not at all tempted by him. So it's interesting to ask, what's changed? What happened to Sirius in the interim? And I wonder, with the wedding and all, and Dogear, and the virtual adoption of Harry, if he's one of those people who is just afraid of being happy, who has an almost compulsive need to sabotage a happiness he maybe feels he doesn't deserve? Or is that more pop-psychologizing on my part?

eft @ August 30 2003, 14:16:43 UTC

How did you find that? ♥

One of the main reasons why Remus was so adamant about ending the relationship was Harry

I really really hope Harry knows that by now. Not that it makes everything magically better, but still.

Oh, and. Ouch.

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:22:12 UTC

Also, Anti. Your title. It makes me want to marry you and punch you in the face all at the same time. I wonder that our relationship is heading into such an abusive direction.

theantimodel @ August 30 2003, 12:18:22 UTC

w00t! Abuse! hahahahaha, um, in other news, your icon really went well with the cringing threats. I hate titling these damned things

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:25:29 UTC

Does anyone remember when Snape and Lupin discussed how Patrick Swayze got into Snape's interest list? Or maybe it was Snape and someone else. WHEN WHEN WHEN

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 08:29:59 UTC

We were talking about this the other day. It was in Snapes Q&A; I think it was said that it was Remus who put it there. I'm willing to agree with that seeing as how he is also in Remus' interests :o

hobaggins @ August 30 2003, 08:31:05 UTC

Dammit, I obviously don't read NrAged thoroughly any longer.

Thanks darling.

therealycats @ August 30 2003, 08:31:37 UTC

Yuh huh! :D

retired_ego @ September 1 2003, 02:43:20 UTC

All that research and here was the only place we needed to go.