jiffy_spiffy @ April 6 2004, 04:12:32 UTC

Words cannot express how much I love Seamus *g*

neveth @ April 6 2004, 06:02:13 UTC

And now he's cutting deals with all involved parties. I love Seamus to bits and pieces.

th_australia @ Deleted Deleted

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jacay @ April 7 2004, 02:23:17 UTC

Deleted posts? Where?

a_player @ April 7 2004, 02:56:10 UTC

They were just deleted because LJ was screwing up and posting our comments 5 times.

vassilissa @ April 6 2004, 08:00:07 UTC

Oy. What's Seamus's problem? He's looking surprisingly Slytherin, as well as making the way potterstinks's customary overreactions to life's little trials look positively normal.

Not to mention poor Colin - do they have to have this conversation where he can read it too? Hello, still grieving for Soblessa, more confused than homophobic really (if it was Finch-Fletchley, I'd completely understand)? I have to say, Millicent wasn't that hurtful in telling scotchtartan that she and Pansy weren't having Greengrass in their tent.

And the whole extortion racket is... bizarre. What's he up to? Is he bored again and trying to stir it?

saffronlie @ April 6 2004, 08:13:10 UTC

I don't think it's a particularly bad way for Seamus to behave. I think that Harry refusing to negotiate and continually claiming he is exempt is worse behaviour. As I was reading the thread, I was thinking, gosh, what an interesting thread to explore how the Gryffindor boys all relate to each other.

There is Seamus doing the diplomatic thing and trying to get everybody to organise and agree on something. He's being pretty patient with everyone, even though Harry and Ron refuse to discuss the issue logically, Dean is being quite laid-back, and Neville has a continual "why me?" attitude. Seamus isn't the only one who doesn't want to be in the tent with Colin -- none of them do, but Seamus is at least prepared to take one for the team, because someone has to, and if it has to be him then I don't blame him for trying to strike a bargain about it. After all, if it has to be someone and no one else is willing, then why shouldn't Seamus ask for recompense? I find it a bit much that he's making Harry pay for his Playwizards, but Harry did offer.

I'm most astonished, however, that all this angst and soul-searching is over a tent. :|

slinkhard @ April 6 2004, 09:49:09 UTC

Word. I think I'd lose my temper with Harry's 'I'm exempt. Wah, poor me.'
Probably good I've never had to share a large tent with my school friends...

Anonymous @ April 6 2004, 09:57:45 UTC

I disagree. I don't think it's fair that Seamus would expect any of them to give him something for "taking one for the team." If anyone else, not just Seamus, was acting that way, I would still think it unfair. And I don't think Harry's behaviour is worse at all. After all, I wouldn't want to share a tent or anything else with someone who had started an anti-me club and I think it would be kind of heartless if my friends thought that I shouldn't have a problem with that. Colin may be reforming in his way of thinking, but it would still be entirely uncomfortable. Harry is not in the wrong, here.

sistermagpie @ April 6 2004, 17:52:30 UTC

Yeah, I don't see Seamus as being patient so much as just getting into organizing everything as he likes to do, stirring some things up and making a profit. How much of a need was there to do this post, after all? (Not that I'm not glad it's there because it's a great thread.) But there's nothing particularly mature about publically saying, "Right, one of us is going to have to room with The Boy We Don't Like, so rather than just have things work out in some normal way we'll publically demonstrate how much we all don't want to room with the little weirdo." Also it kind of throws around the Seventh year boys being cooler than Sixth years, because who wants to room with the babies?

I didn't take Harry's "I'm exempt" to be strictly self-pitying. It struck me as just kind of deadpan snarky, with the "anti-me" club comment (so OTT, after all, it really does trump everything else). I didn't think it was that big of a deal for Harry, and that his getting the Playwizards for Seamus was just sort of funny. I'd think most guys' reaction to Seamus saying, "Okay, let's get together and vote about who has to share with Colin," would be, "Let's not and say we did."

Re: the comment above about Seamus talking about Colin, Seamus is kind of all over the place with his talking about other people where they can read it in this thread. Colin's crazy, and ps is kind of getting referenced as the Queen of teh Gay. I don't know if it's an attempt to get a rise out of either of them, though. Seamus is often almost elaborate in his not taking ps seriously.

Seems to me the most ominous post is Parvati's though, where she says she has a Bad Feeling about the trip. Parvati's got a track record for these things.

Anonymous @ April 6 2004, 18:26:43 UTC

I agree, and didn't think Harry was being completely serious. I thought his saying "I'm exempt" over and over again without changing what he was saying sort of implied that he wasn't entirely serious. But I do also think Harry has a point, which is that the person that it would be most awkward to share a tent with Colin is Harry, so really it does seem fair to me that he shouldn't be in the running. I mean, all of Colin's various phases of personality have almost always revolved around Harry. Not really something Seamus or Dean can compare to.

Parvati's post worries me too. Of course the idea of being in the middle of the woods/fields creeps me out on its own, so that definitely gave me a sense of foreboding!

wordsworthy @ April 6 2004, 18:43:09 UTC

Well, aside from Harry, it would also be rather awkward for Neville to share with Colin. Neville mentions the time he blew up the library; see the original thread here, with this result. There's not a lot of friendly feeling between Neville and Colin either.

Yeah, Parvarti's post is weird. Not good. She had a foreseeing the last time something big happened (remember the fish post?)

black_dog @ April 7 2004, 04:39:15 UTC

How much of a need was there to do this post, after all?

Oh, I think this post is totally in character, not just the way people are talking, but the fact that the discussion is taking place. I'm just thinking back to college -- six roommates! -- and we argued about everything when there was a corporate issue like this at stake, where someone was going to get the short end of some deal (who gets the slightly smaller room with the funny corner?). And "I'm exempt!" was a perfectly legitimate tactic if it survived the straight-face test. :) It really does kind of suck to be on this great, memorable excursion, and to have to room apart from the people who are closest to you, and who are going to sharing all sorts of little moment-by-moment good times. So if you're the one making the sacrifice, attention must be paid! I don't think three playwizards and one breakfast-in-bed are extortionate at all, as a proper formal offering to make up for disappointment.

But there's nothing particularly mature about publically saying, "Right, one of us is going to have to room with The Boy We Don't Like . . .

Eh, maturity is overrated. They can't stand Colin, and more importantly he's indirectly causing stress among them now because of the need for someone to be left out. So they're reinforcing their own strained bond with each other by trashing him. I think that's pretty natural.

I find it interesting that, despite the pretense of a discussion, Seamus is relatively quick to volunteer, and also conspicuously puts no pressure on Dean to be the odd man out. I actually think Seamus being out of the tent is clearly the best diplomatic solution -- anyone else would have issues and harder feelings about it. (Just think it through.) I also wonder if Seamus doesn't quite trust himself to sleep in a tent with Dean, given the way he almost compromised himself in the chat thread. Demanding tangible goods in return is maybe a matter of not being too much of a pushover, and maybe also a healthy anticipatory antidote to self-pity.

Seamus is kind of all over the place with his talking about other people where they can read it in this thread . . . ps is kind of getting referenced as the Queen of teh Gay. I don't know if it's an attempt to get a rise out of either of them, though.

I think I'd be surprised if it wasn't deliberate, though. PS has a history of feeling welcome to jump into Seamus' threads -- and Seamus has a history of teasing and distracting PS when he's upset, of making him feel liked and not letting him drift too far away from Harry's orbit. So I kind of think Seamus' remark here was a deliberate signal, a door left intentionally open for PS to speak up if he was inclined.

vassilissa @ April 7 2004, 09:04:52 UTC

he's indirectly causing stress among them now because of the need for someone to be left out.

Actually, I think McGonnagal's a 'she'. ;-)

I think you're right about Seamus and PS - I quite liked that reference. It was subtler than the Colin stuff, and not really mean, more like 'thank goodness there's only one of him.'

black_dog @ April 7 2004, 14:01:08 UTC

Actually, I think McGonnagal's a 'she'. ;-)

LOL, you're right, it's not really fair to blame Colin for McG's rule. But he's the reason it sucks so much to comply with the rule. So, he gets to be the focus of resentment. Not fair, but human nature maybe. :)

sistermagpie @ April 7 2004, 16:47:46 UTC

Oh, I think this post is totally in character, not just the way people are talking, but the fact that the discussion is taking place.

Oh yeah--that's definitely how I saw it. I just making a distinction between roommate stuff like this and someone handling something the best way possible etc. They're just all making a big deal out of it. I think Seamus being the one to do this makes the most sense--he IS the person probably most likely to "make the sacrifice" and I thought his, "Ron, should I really share a tent with a known homophobe," etc. was a little tongue in cheek, like, "I'm willing to do this, but I'm going to get something out of it." I'd like to think Seamus decided to get proactive on this and rather than see the whole thing too badly, make it work to his advantage knowing he's the one who's got the least to lose by staying in the other tent. The tents are next door, after all.

At my college we'd have house meetings that lasted all night with everybody reiterating what other people had said (and announcing they were going to before they started speaking) so yeah, I understand the dorm room "This is a big issue," mentality. My favorite vote was still the one on "significant other shower hours," which did not apply to the hours during which ones SO could shower (they could shower whenever they wanted) but the hours during which the two of you could shower together.

I think I'd be surprised if it wasn't deliberate, though. PS has a history of feeling welcome to jump into Seamus' threads -- and Seamus has a history of teasing and distracting PS when he's upset, of making him feel liked and not letting him drift too far away from Harry's orbit. So I kind of think Seamus' remark here was a deliberate signal, a door left intentionally open for PS to speak up if he was inclined.

Seamus and Ron seem to both be working to keep the channels open.:-) In his past few posts Seamus has basically made it clear that he thinks ps is being a drama queen about this thing with Harry and that he's just freaked out like a boyfriend (every strange thing people do goes back to sexual attraction or sex). He may be trying to get ps to at least engage with him so he can talk him down from whatever ledge he's got himself out on now.

God, now I'm totally seeing ps like some cat that ran up to the top of a bookcase in a panic and now has no way of getting down, and there's Seamus trying to just coax it into taking the one step etc.

But obviously whatever's going on hasn't changed Ron and Seamus' views on ps, which may be something it would help him to know.

black_dog @ April 7 2004, 17:57:36 UTC

Seamus and Ron seem to both be working to keep the channels open.:-)

I was just fading last night when I saw Ron's reply to PS' post, and I thought, "Good, I can sleep now and there'll be a fun thread here in the morning." And then, of course, it turns out to end immediately with PS remark about Ron being "insignificant." What do you make of that? I definitely thought Ron was doing a "channels open" kind of post and I thought he might pursue things more aggressively. Did PS cross some line between teasing and insult that Ron recognized, so he just cut things off? Or do you suppose Ron just got swept up in a game of Exploding Snap in the tent?

Seamus has basically made it clear that he thinks ps is being a drama queen about this thing with Harry and that he's just freaked out like a boyfriend (every strange thing people do goes back to sexual attraction or sex).

Does that imply a little bit of Seamus-as-Hermione? Seamus-the-wise, trying to get everyone to behave less foolishly? Yet Seamus himself loses perspective a little with Dean in this thread, which is a really, really nice touch of fallibility.

I thought his implicit message to Draco wasn't so much about sexual attraction making people crazy -- I think it's more focused on naturalizing PS' homosexuality, on making Draco less conflicted about being gay. After implying PS was a raging queen and exhausting to deal with, Seamus played off that remark of Dean's -- "this is me, gay" to imply that gayness changes nothing about people. It's a curious bit of rhetoric, I think, because implicitly it takes the sting out of the "raging queen" stereotype while implying that PS is difficult just because he's PS -- he's saying his sexuality has nothing to do with it. It also plays interestingly off the substance of JH and PS' fight by implying that people don't change, and by suggesting that you can grumble about that without necessarily making a project of trying to change them.

I'm totally seeing ps like some cat that ran up to the top of a bookcase in a panic and now has no way of getting down

I love that image so much it almost persuades me :). Actually I think PS is less about boxing himself into corners and more about making people come after him. In this case, PS is trying, I think, to get himself down from the tree. I think he was hoping for a reply from Harry, especially with that remark about "the other Seeker being so much better," which was their famous breakthrough comment so long ago. Maybe that's why he snapped at Ron. I also liked the way he was actually being self-deprecating about his seeker skills, pretending it was a brilliant, deliberate move for the snitch to get tangled in his robes.

there's Seamus trying to just coax it into taking the one step etc.

Indispensible Seamus!

sistermagpie @ April 7 2004, 19:57:27 UTC

I wouldn't be surprised if Ron just got caught up in whatever they're doing. It might be interesting to wonder if Harry told him to just leave it alone, but I can't really see Harry doing that. It seems hard to believe Ron would give up a chance to say flat-out that ps got the Snitch by accident.

Seamus' fallibilities are definitely some of his best parts.:-) His breakup with Dean was great, I thought, because Dean had a point in saying that he felt like he just faded away with Seamus because Seamus was so dominating. That was interesting because of course that was in large part Dean's fault by wanting that. After Seamus he went straight to Terry and then felt bereft when Terry wasn't as attentive as Seamus was. But there was still a truth to what he was saying--Seamus' "take care of it" attitude isn't always a good thing, and it's more fun watching him deal with people who don't listen to him all of the time, who are ultimately not dependent on him.

I thought his implicit message to Draco wasn't so much about sexual attraction making people crazy -- I think it's more focused on naturalizing PS' homosexuality, on making Draco less conflicted about being gay.

That's really interesting! Because, I mean, Draco has always been exceedingly gay in terms of his fussiness, his interior decorating skills and interest in fashion and bananas. Yet strangely, he's not the kind of homophobe who is ashamed of that, trying to act butch. He's quite bold about those kinds of interests, maybe because he grew up associating them with his parents and not gay people.

At the time I thought Seamus' first remarks about strange behavior being about sex were directed at Harry, assuring him that ps acts this way because he likes Harry. It's hard to know exactly what his little jokes about ps' gayness meant in that thread--they did sound like an opening for him to pop in, or just a joke on such an easy target because ps is such a character, but your theory that Seamus is beginning to introduce the concept of ps as a friend with benefits casually is interesting too. Harry won't do it, so maybe Seamus has taken it upon himself? Did ps not answer Seamus' first post about his strange behavior because he's so clueless he didn't recognize himself or because he didn't want to publically admit he recognized Seamus was referring to him, even to deny it?

Actually I think PS is less about boxing himself into corners and more about making people come after him.

Oh yeah, I think he's all about wanting somebody to carry him down. Now he's up there making that peculiar meow noise cats make when they're in trouble.:-) I did get the sense that his Seeker remarks were directed at Harry--I mean, whenever he talks about the other Seeker being so much better how can you not think of Harry? If that's his way of trying to get to him, though, then he just must be softening, right? I mean, he's in playful, making-fun-of-himself mode, rather that the angry aggressive one he was in when he posted the last time.

Oh, and his opening paragraph was just hysterical--not even a house elf camping! My favorite line was about the wafer pillow, though. I have a feeling ps is going to get into some serious trouble somehow. He's not paying attention to whatever's going on in Ravenclaw, he's decided that "look sharp" means he should dress well and he hasn't listened to the lesson. Poison ivy, I tell. Or maybe he'll just be eaten by a plant.

black_dog @ April 8 2004, 01:09:40 UTC

At the time I thought Seamus' first remarks about strange behavior being about sex were directed at Harry

I may be missing your reference here. On the camp thread (how appropriate!) I think it all starts from Seamus and Dean talking about novelty, about being oneself. Dean is temperamentally inclined to fade into the background, which was part of the problem in the old relationship, maybe -- he was an enabler for Seamus' assertiveness, even as he came to resent it. And maybe the hair is one way of getting away from that. Here Seamus seems to be reassuring Dean that he likes Dean's vanity, likes Dean's aggressiveness about his appearance. The remark about Harry seemed almost a throwaway ("unlike some heartthrobs we know") -- though this is another old theme with Seamus, trying to dress up Harry a bit.

I wonder if maybe Seamus thought he camped it up a bit too much with his remarks about "right queens" and "becoming gay in one fell swoop." Because from there he goes on to make the point about gayness not making that much difference -- citing multiple examples in his typically mischeivous!Seamus way, including Draco. The consensus seems to be that Draco hasn't changed at all.

I like your point about how this represents Seamus pioneering some new ground in talking about Draco. Not only is he "normalizing" Draco's gayness in the way I thought, but he's asserting a right to talk about him in that context, too, to semi-publicly recognize the fact. Without doing it so crudely (Ron. "Boyfriend.") that it sets ps off. PS has the option to recognize himself here or not -- I'm not actually surprised that he didn't jump in and acknowledge he was being talked about, but it was clear that he would have been welcome if he chose to.

I think he's all about wanting somebody to carry him down.

I think PS would really, really like Harry to comment on his thread. And we know Harry's around, so there's hope. I suspect PS feels that, since he (PS) had the tantrum, it's Harry's job to make up. But he's also trying to make it easy for Harry, with the tone and details of his post, so that's got to be worth something. I kind of liked the way the ever-supportive M.B. tried to draw a Harry-comment to PS' thread, by making scurrilous insinuations about the history folder on Harry's laptop. But Harry doesn't rise to the bait -- in fact he pretends, on Ron's thread, not to know who has his laptop, and then changes the subject when Ron tells him MB has it. So Harry might not quite be ready to give in, yet.

his opening paragraph was just hysterical--not even a house elf camping

Actually, what made me choke on my tea was the offhand reference to "kitchens" in the tents. But you're absolutely right -- Draco seems to be in a good-enraged mood rather than an enraged-enraged mood. Let's hope that fresh air and general giddiness and shadowy woods and night excursions all conspire to help things along!

sistermagpie @ April 8 2004, 01:58:13 UTC

I may be missing your reference here.

Sorry! I was referring to Seamus' comment on the night of the Ravenclaw party, when he said whenever people act strangely it's due to sexual interest. That was the remark I thought was mostly directed at Harry, to say that ps' puzzling behavior was because he liked Harry.

he was an enabler for Seamus' assertiveness, even as he came to resent it. And maybe the hair is one way of getting away from that. Here Seamus seems to be reassuring Dean that he likes Dean's vanity,

I thought that too--on one hand Dean was an enabler, but I suspect Seamus is also trying to make a point of supporting Dean's choices about himself. Seamus sort of has the urge to dress everybody up, but he's got good reason to be watching himself, since Dean is apologizing to him. And he got to say "I told you so" which must make Seamus' day.;-)

PS has the option to recognize himself here or not -- I'm not actually surprised that he didn't jump in and acknowledge he was being talked about, but it was clear that he would have been welcome if he chose to.

I feel like ps is still a little subdued, not interacting in full force. Given where he is his post could have been far more OTT, but he started off giving a basic rant about how the accomodations were beneath him, then he started seeming sort of lonely or isolated: he's in a tent with C&G and Nott with the sixth years beside him instead of his friends. The "other houses" are spaced out from them, which he claims is good because he can't hear people "messing about" when he's in the tent, but just gives me a picture of him being far away from the Gryffs. The Ravenclaw tent is sort of nearby but he's not going there. Then he launches into the Quidditch story (which Nott wants to hear if Harry doesn't care?) which ends up on the sad thought of The Other Seeker just being better.

I suspect PS feels that, since he (PS) had the tantrum, it's Harry's job to make up.

And let's just pause here and admire the ps logic in THAT statement: "I acted like a brat, so you should apologize."

M.B. seems to be tempting ps with a look at Harry's internet history...if Harry has read ps' post then I wonder if he's making a point of not caring if ps sees what's there. (I know I'M dying to know!) Harry didn't rise to the bait, and ps hasn't yet either. But ps is already the one cracking I think. Harry's post-fight post was aggressively non-ps centered, but ps has already started to, I think, put in a little Harry subtext.

At the same time, though, I feel like this fight is very different for ps than ones in the past, since he just seems subdued. I don't mean he's being silent the way he was after the almost-kiss when he was aggressively ignoring Harry. Maybe I'm crazy, but he just seemed kind of withdrawn, and I feel like he just doesn't really want to talk to anybody but Harry. I mean ps often swings back and forth between aggressive and withdrawn, but this time he seems almost mixed and that makes it sad. I sort of feel like he doesn't have it in him to give it his full "I'm so glad I'm nowhere near you cretins" act, but at the same time the only seeking out of Harry he can manage is a very mild Quidditch story. Unless of course I'm totally overreading the Seeker line.

Of course, he may blow all this out of the water in five minutes by swooping in and replying to everyone and doing a hysterical post.:-)

oconel @ April 6 2004, 09:48:39 UTC

Parvati posts to defend her "property" :P

comava @ April 6 2004, 13:07:04 UTC

Wah, I love that bit!

<3 Ron/Parvati

loony_moony @ Deleted Deleted

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