tabiji @ April 11 2004, 07:19:30 UTC

Unfortunately, I have to sleep and can't sit here refreshing like I want to

No way! Dude, it's an nraged rule...if you start a post you have to refresh continually until the posting stops! :))

dry_your_eyes @ April 11 2004, 10:40:15 UTC

hahahaaa it's a very strict rule indeed :)

lilychick @ April 11 2004, 18:08:40 UTC

Hee, I'll be sure to do so next time. I *wanted* to this time as well, but I was literally falling asleep on my keyboard, so I figured I wouldn't have done a very good job reporting on it anyway. (*grin*)

vassilissa @ April 11 2004, 07:35:34 UTC

Thank you.

I was doing really horrible homework, the kind where you stop every few pencilstrokes to open your mouth and silently scream, and this helped.

off-topic whine mode=on
It so should not take me nearly an hour to arrange eight bars of orchestral score for quartet. Eight bars of *easy* orchestral score that I chose because it was the *easiest*. I hate this subject. I'm not even getting marked on this arrangement - I just have to have it done so I can be assessed on conducting said quartet playing it.
/off-topic

vassilissa @ April 11 2004, 07:54:22 UTC

Hee.

chasingwhispers @ April 11 2004, 07:55:49 UTC

The Slytherins crease me up. Everyone else is having a panic attack over Pettigrew's escape, and Millicent is giving Draco dead puffskeins.

Now as for this:
"You're an idiot, Potter."
"Why?... etc."
"No. I, as well, would like to know why you're an idiot.

I can tell you why! Because I translate this as: Damn you for making light of this, even if you DID have those stupid glasses on, and damn your stupid dramatic life with its one-toed fugitives who want to kill you and have to escape right near my bloody birthday celebration when I wanted to have all the spotlight and for you to be focussed on ME, not some traitorous rat and it's all so unfair and I want to blame you just because and DAMN YOU for making me feel this niggling thing inside that I have horrible suspicions might be actual CONCERN FOR YOU. Argh. You're an idiot, Potter.

Aha! *Snortgiggle*

breze @ April 11 2004, 08:15:36 UTC

Heh.

And here I thought it might have been a "I can't believe you are idiotic enough not to come to my party, Potter. So we may have had a little squabble, but that was what, a decade ago? And it is my belated birthday party. Do I need to capitalize the 'my' part? And obviously, if you'd come, no one (like me) would have to worry about that stupid rat coming after you, coz like, hello? Malfoy Manor and all. Really, Potter, there is no extent to your stupidity."

jacay @ April 11 2004, 20:43:12 UTC

Dead puffskeins sound awfully familiar. Hmm. *crafty look*

vassilissa @ April 12 2004, 04:40:30 UTC

Awwww. I adore your translation, just so you know.

jupistrahan @ April 14 2004, 03:32:54 UTC

OMG, That's it exactly. You cause me to <3 Draco so very, very much.

trowa @ April 11 2004, 08:39:48 UTC

I just love M.B's bunny ears icon.

noirenails @ April 11 2004, 12:51:08 UTC

And I love your icon.

chasingwhispers @ April 11 2004, 08:41:56 UTC Livethread!

Millicent is just so in love with Draco.

faelori @ April 11 2004, 10:48:11 UTC

*HISSES*

Dude, Percy, you IDIOT! Gaaah!

Oh, and, I adore M.B. <3 <3 <3

Hahahahaha. "You must not be very good." Multitasking!Draco.

loony_moony @ Deleted Deleted

Deleted

pengolodh_sc @ April 11 2004, 11:52:25 UTC

It strikes me that when Percy read the book Prefects who Gained Power, he must have come across a chapter called Prefects who Gained Power by Sleeping Their Way to the Top.

lilychick @ April 11 2004, 18:13:14 UTC

(*dies*)

The mind reels. I can't even figure out what to say. Bwa ha.

pengolodh_sc @ April 11 2004, 18:25:35 UTC

Well, Occam's Razor does suggest that the reason "the Minister brings Weasley everywhere like his date", is that Weasley is his date.

I wonder what bond it is that MB and Dean are sharing....

akimbie @ April 11 2004, 20:52:07 UTC

I wonder what bond it is that MB and Dean are sharing....

Probably Terry

greenanddying @ April 12 2004, 02:34:59 UTC

Is it ridiculous that I found that incredibly funny?

So funny that I cackled madly and practically fell off my computer chair?

The sad thing is I have no real-life friends that share in the NrAged love.

jacay @ April 11 2004, 17:46:27 UTC

I'm stupid. So, I don't understand exactly what is going on here. Someone explain?

jacay @ April 11 2004, 17:51:02 UTC

Also, did anyone else notice that Millicent is concentrating somewhat on Sally-Anne Perks? For some reason this seems to have something to do with Harry. Like Draco is saying he's over Harry, or something. Eh?

sistermagpie @ April 11 2004, 19:53:03 UTC

Sally-Anne had a pretty bad effect on Draco in the past, didn't she? Wasn't she connected to the mudblood incident? I seem to recall that she was the one who M.B. and Pansy drove out of school for some good reason, but she's never entirely gone away.

Something tells me when Draco gets closer to Sally-Anne it's never a good thing, and she maybe is always a bad alternative to Harry in some way.

jacay @ April 11 2004, 21:15:08 UTC

Yeah, she was pretty much the instigator or whatever. It started here, and he mentions Sally-Anne a few times shortly afterward. He says that the last person he dated was Sally-Anne here, and then here he mentions Sally-Anne again, which wouldn't be strange except that it's right after his calm entry, and a couple entries after the whole thing about Harry being gay. So I think you're right. I wish I knew what I was trying to prove by going through Draco's journal for the last hour.

sistermagpie @ April 11 2004, 23:08:07 UTC

I wish I knew what I was trying to prove by going through Draco's journal for the last hour.

Sadly, this is a question I have asked myself more than once.

But if they're going to speak in code (Sally-Anne, puffskeins, zombies, algae) I do not understand what else can I do but drive myself insane?

jacay @ April 12 2004, 00:17:33 UTC

The only thing I can think of is that they're speaking in code because things are going on now that are similar to things that have gone on in the past, like around the time of the dead puffskein. Also: zombie puffskeins, and sleeping in tents. Surely there is a point to these coincidences.

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 00:27:15 UTC

Either that or they're just having fun and we're driving ourselves crazy.:-) I like the idea of things going on that were similar, though. That was over the summer, wasn't it? So Harry was depressed and worried about Sirius. Draco was preparing for his Apparation test and his parents had not yet gone to Italy.

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 02:32:10 UTC

Now at last check, wasn't Sally-Anne at Durmstrang and kind of terrified of Draco and Pansy? And sending PS quasi-insulting letters? The links to the PS/Sally-Anne correspondence from last spring are unfortunately dead, but that's how I remember it.

So are you suggesting, or are you open to the suggestion, that "Sally-Anne" might be code for someone else? We last hear from Harry at 21:25 on the 10th, when Sirius makes the odd comment about why he's using the computer when he's [supposedly] in the next room. The Sally-Anne remarks are slightly later than that.

Plausible? Or have recent events unhinged my judgment completely?

jacay @ April 12 2004, 02:47:05 UTC

Oh wow, you're right! But then again, she could be there, it's Easter break, right? So it could be one or the other, really. Do you know of any other times that anyone has referenced Sally-Anne?

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 03:37:57 UTC

LOL! Well, there's something I hadn't thought of! Didn't Draco run into Sally-Anne recently? And I think they exchanged Xmas cards. I seem to remember her being maybe terrified of Pansy but more angry at ps in a, "You jerk your friend attacked me!" kind of way. Not that we know her that well (potato that she is), but I sort of imagine her seething and Durmstrang and always looking for her chance to succeed at whatever she was trying to do while at Hogwarts. IIRC, for instance, it was she who kind of walked up to Draco with the idea for the mud blood thing. Is this because Sally-Anne is a huge DE groupie or because she thought this was a good way to make pals with ps? Or did she want to get him in trouble? No clue.

If Sally-Anne was code for Harry, then M.B. would be saying the idea of Harry having sex turned her stomach and you know? I just can't see M.B. saying that. Somehow, I think she'd find that idea more amusing than disgusting.:-)

jacay @ April 12 2004, 04:02:32 UTC

Sally-Anne did come up with the idea. And that's interesting, that she did the mudblood thing, and that he's trying to be friends with her again or something, considering the fact that what triggered his row with Harry was his calling someone a mudblood. And the theory then was that he's saying "You can't change me!" and then went off blatantly ignoring Harry. I think that's what he's still doing.

But, the theory that Sally-Anne is code for Harry is much more interesting.

a_player @ April 12 2004, 04:11:17 UTC

And I think they exchanged Xmas cards. I seem to remember her being maybe terrified of Pansy but more angry at ps in a, "You jerk your friend attacked me!" kind of way.

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 08:55:03 UTC

M.B. would be saying the idea of Harry having sex turned her stomach

True. I was looking for a way around that, and couldn't find one. Oh well. And now, of course, we see the bigger picture --

It's just weird, though, that Seamus was invited and Harry and Ron were not, if that's what happened. I'm trying to imagine whether it's plausible that PS thought Seamus would bring Harry as his guest -- maybe he did it that way for secrecy, and invited the Minister so his father wouldn't get up to anything? But based on Ron's remark, he and Harry had no idea about any such plan, and I don't think Seamus would have sabotaged it if he'd understood the intention. "If he really likes me, he'll come as Seamus' guest" seems too neurotic even for PS. I really have no clue what the little whackjob is up to. :)

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 14:00:33 UTC

As I said in the other thread, it may just be one of ps' statements that make no sense to anyone but himself.:-) If he really likes Harry, surely he should insult him by planning a party for months and not inviting him! He could have been waiting for Harry to demand to be invited in order to show he really wanted to be there, and then ps could have made a big drama of allowing him to come because he begged. It's stupid but then, so is forbidding someone to see you in hospital when you really want to see them in hospital!

Somehow I don't think ps would expect Seamus to bring Harry. Seamus has enough of a clue to know if that would be a good idea and he didn't suggest it. After all, why would Harry agree to such a thing? Everytime Seamus tries to drag Harry somewhere he resists, and I can't see him showing up somewhere he wasn't expressly invited, especially if Lucius Malfoy was there!

I suppose, though, that we *should* go back and consider this as part of Harry's exasperation with ps. Why does he insist on these elaborate shows of dislike? Why can't he just be normal about the two of them being friends (and Ron too)? Especially if he's not even just making it a Slytherin party, because he's inviting Seamus? Presumably Seamus probably spoke to Harry about the party earlier on and knew Harry had no trouble with him going. He probably saw it as an ploy for attention somehow (Seamus did, I mean). It's interesting that Ron waited until after the party to openly confront him about it, either because he was for the first time dealing with the idea that Seamus and Dean were there and not him and Harry, or because he was wanting to demand an invite and Harry told him to hold off and now that it's over Ron can say whatever he wants.

I suspect Harry simply won't say anything about the party, making it backfire on ps, since he'll wind up thinking Harry didn't care about his birthday party and didn't really want to come to it. Harry will just chalk it up to Draco's inexplicable need to insult him periodically.

Oh, and interesting that Sally-Anne and Nott appear to be cousins and have the same mannerisms. Nott's a ladies' man, so Sally-Anne may be "charming" as well. But I wonder if we should see them as connected in some way, and both sort of symbols of Draco's extremely racist friends...?

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 17:11:04 UTC

I suppose, though, that we *should* go back and consider this as part of Harry's exasperation with ps.

It really does turn the implications of some of the recent posts upside down. Instead of Harry elaborately, publicly snubbing Draco by making plans at Dogear, for example, he may have just been making the record absolutely clear that he was not invited, or even signalling his confusion to Draco -- are you sure you don't want to invite me? I wonder even if their fight was in part about PS' decision not to invite him, though somehow I can't see Harry making an issue of that sort of thing so directly.

Why does he insist on these elaborate shows of dislike? . . . Especially if he's not even just making it a Slytherin party, because he's inviting Seamus?

There's an interesting little phrase in PS' post -- "Speaking of things that cannot be made up for, I invited Finnigan to be polite . . . " The thing that "cannot be made up for" is of course Seamus' bringing Dean along, but in another sense, purely unintentionally, it could apply as well to the snub of Harry. There are certainly plenty of reasons why Harry might not be invited, or not want to attend, a social event with Lucius or at the Manor. And it would be very easy for PS to say that a gathering at the Manor was just a Slytherin gathering. But by inviting Seamus, he makes the snub explicit, and that may very well be unforgivable.

I suspect Harry simply won't say anything about the party,

How could you, really? That's why, if it's a calculated attempt to extract a gesture or a declaration from Harry, it's so misguided.

Taking everything together, this looks more and more like a straightforward breakup, doesn't it? Show's over! Presumably, for the sake of the story, there's another act, but if so we're certainly getting the full "darkest before dawn" treatment here. The only consolation, maybe, is the very brief exchange that we both commented on the other day -- when PS speaks up to call Harry an idiot over his frivolous attitude toward Peter. If I'm not mistaken it's the one time Draco has commented directly to Harry since the fight, and it seems to be an expression of alarm and concern, though Harry isn't quite ready to acknowledge it or be friendly. So we have that much evidence that an emotional connection is still there to rebuild something with.

Oh, and interesting that Sally-Anne and Nott appear to be cousins and have the same mannerisms.

When PS said, "Have you ever seen them together?" my first thought was much too Ernie-like to even admit here. :)

Interesting, though, that PS talks about some "unsavory" members of the Nott family who didn't attend the party. Since he'd been talking about parents, could he be referring to Nott's parents, who are allies of his father? Has he decided he despises them after all, even after that social evening they had in France a while back? Given all the recent rumbling about DE business, could he assume that they're part of springing Peter, thereby further complicating his life? Does he resent that?

jacay @ April 12 2004, 18:14:15 UTC

I don't know that PS will let them just break up. I get the feeling he's not the "show's over" type. Like he expects Harry to at least try and apologize for what PS sees as his completely irrational actions.

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 20:10:26 UTC

He may well be trying to push things to a crisis to "prove" Harry's feelings for him. But is that a rational thing to do, and is it likely to work?

jacay @ April 13 2004, 01:32:55 UTC

Probably not rational, but Draco might think it is. And it could work. And if it doesn't, Draco will likely do something about it, if he's doing that in the first place, that is.

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 18:19:25 UTC

Instead of Harry elaborately, publicly snubbing Draco by making plans at Dogear, he may have just been making the record absolutely clear that he was not invited, or even signalling his confusion to Draco -- are you sure you don't want to invite me?

Or just doing his own version of it in return: Let's see, what shall I do with all my free time this Easter hols that will be so much better than any parties going on that I am not even admitting to being aware of?

if it's a calculated attempt to extract a gesture or a declaration from Harry, it's so misguided.

Misguided being ps' middle name...:-)

Taking everything together, this looks more and more like a straightforward breakup, doesn't it?

But remember the invitations went out before the fight, so I don't think Harry's not being invited is exactly connected. I mean, to me it seems more like just proof of exactly what Harry was talking about: "You keep acting like you hate me, so I think you hate me. I'm stupid that way. Why don't you explain to me what I'm supposed to think when you say you don't even want me in your house?"

So it doesn't seem like the party itself is a deciding factor either way. Draco didn't invite Harry (would it be too overboard to suggest he was afraid Harry wouldn't come so decided to reject him before he could be rejected?) so wasn't expecting him. Harry wasn't invited already so didn't take the non-invite as being part of Draco's recent tantrum. I feel like their break-up, such as it is, is still unresolved. Harry brought up the idea of it (What's the point?) and Draco ran with that and ran away. But they both still seem like they've got things to say to each other, with Draco's recent posts and Harry's post about being an idiot. I can't tell whether they spoke to each other in the woods or not, though.

Interesting that Draco invited Seamus thinking he and Narcissa might get along. Does this signal that ps is becoming less jealous of Narcissa's attentions, or that Seamus is just better for her to like than Harry?

The only consolation, maybe, is the very brief exchange that we both commented on the other day -- when PS speaks up to call Harry an idiot over his frivolous attitude toward Peter.

It is the first direct contact we've seen, but remember Draco himself displayed a frivolous attitude towards Peter when he pointed out he'd lived in Weasley's pocket for years and never did anything. His comment may very well have been more about the fact that Harry was, at the time, asking if all the fuss had to do with his underpants, and it could be that whole incident that Draco was referring to with his idiot remark. This is partly why I read it with a hint of affection, myself: typical Potter thinks the world's in a tizzy over his polka-dots. He showed faux-good humor about the incident then, but now his true vanity comes out! After all, it was in the Prophet, and Harry is unintentionally spoofing himself by assuming that the important thing Hermione needed to talk to him about is his underwear.

When PS said, "Have you ever seen them together?" my first thought was much too Ernie-like to even admit here.

LOL! But they were both at the party at the same time, right?

The unsavory members of the Nott family could always be the ones *not* allied to his father, or those of inferior bloodline. Dad's allies seemed to be onhand for the most part (and Mrs. Goyle's been reading up on beauty tips!) so I'd say this party was pretty pro-DE, whether or not Draco sees them that way. Seamus and Dean seemed to be hoping to pick up some information while they were there. Draco seems to be moving closer to Nott this year, after running away from him last summer.

Draco really might be painting himself into a corner (as usual). He demands that Harry let him "be himself" and to that end declares himself allied to Purebloods. But since Harry really is respecting who he is he's NOT saving him from his bad friends. In fact Harry seems to really be taking a stand that if ps wants to be friends he has to say so. So he could really be at a crossroads. I think his instincts are moving towards Harry but he's still terrified to put himself out there.

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 20:03:53 UTC

what shall I do with all my free time this Easter hols that will be so much better than any parties going on that I am not even admitting to being aware of?

I want to kick them both. I'm sorry, I really do.

But remember the invitations went out before the fight, so I don't think Harry's not being invited is exactly connected.

OK, I'm looking at chronology again, because chronology gives the illusion of order to this whole spectacle.

Draco posted on the 8th of March about getting ready to send out invitations. (This was also when he posted about Sally-Anne Perks coming to his party, and about meeting her father in Hogsmeade. Evidence that he's getting serious about the DE-wife business? Presumably Pansy is unsuitable because she really is a beard, and is more interested in M.B.)

But the 8th of March is also the date of the big "mudblood" fight in the library. So, if Draco's feelings were hurt at that time, that is when he might have decided not to invite Harry to his party.

A week later, Harry and Draco have a conversation that we don't learn about until Harry alludes to it on Draco's "estrogen" thread, one week later still. Presumably that's when they have a behind-the-scenes fight about why Draco is "acting this way" and whether Harry is trying to change him. So, this might have either been a delayed reaction to the March 8 fight, or the point where Harry realized Draco wasn't inviting him. In that fight, and in subsequent events, nothing happens to smooth things over, and they both say things to inflame the situation even further.

Anyway, that's one possible explanation. A couple other issues may be part of the mix. Both the Sally-Anne reconciliation and the "mudblood" blowup are happening in the wake of Love Your Neighbor Week. Part of the dynamic there seems to be that Draco was embarassed at the revelation that the Gulf clubs were his most prized possession; Harry seems to have been giddily happy about it and maybe presumed on it a bit, and Draco went out of his way to discourage him and be cold to him.

Finally, it's only fair to ask: could Harry really ever have attended a party at the Manor anyway? Would it be too dangerous, or too awkward and offensive to deal with Lucius? And too awkward for whom? Draco may feel that an invitation might have created an impossible situation, for himself as well as for Harry, but also felt unable to talk with Harry about it since it would dredge up issues that cut too close to the bone -- the choice he's facing between Harry and his DE milieu. So, he finds a way of sabotaging the invitation before it is even sent. What was he thinking when he announced the party, then? Or was he not thinking, or facing similar issues for a December party, while April seemed far enough away not to think about?

Just dredging up some options, here, to consider.

[continued . . .]

black_dog @ April 12 2004, 20:04:29 UTC

[. . . continued]

remember Draco himself displayed a frivolous attitude towards Peter when he pointed out he'd lived in Weasley's pocket for years and never did anything. His comment may very well have been more about the fact that Harry was, at the time, asking if all the fuss had to do with his underpants

Hmmmm. I still read this differently than you, I think. Ron's post is about Peter's escape, and so is most of the commentary. Harry chimes in with a series of idiotic, almost drunken-sounding remarks: Guys, it's not that bad! Look on the bright side! At least we're informed! His "pants" remark feels to me like a digression -- Hermione is trying to shush him about Peter, wants to talk to him privately, and he asks idiotically if it's about his pants. I don't think that's enough to establish a new context for the discussion. It provokes Hermione's "for fuck's sake" remark, which is exactly parallel as a comment to PS' "you idiot." Hermione isn't angry at Harry for mentioning his pants, she's angry at him for not taking Peter seriously. I think Peter remains the main topic here. Draco's later remark about Peter spending three years in Ron's pocket may be more a sarcastic demonstration of Weasley idiocy than a serious argument that Peter is not a danger; it's self-evident that an escaped mass-murderer is probably a danger. So, bottom line, I continue to see PS intervention as a matter of exasperation and concern than just finding an opportunity (and how many other opportunities might there have been) to tease Harry in a friendly way.

But they were both at the party at the same time, right?

But were they ever in the same room together?

since Harry really is respecting who he is he's NOT saving him from his bad friends.

I'm divided on whether Harry needs to do this for his own sanity, or is making the ultimate gesure of faith in Draco. From Draco's perspective, I can see a horrible irony, in that Harry refuses to force the issue and Draco feels, "why aren't you saving me from the DE's? You must not really love me!" I think PS may well be an impossible enough person to think that way.

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 21:09:15 UTC

Hmmmm...those dates make it really interesting. I seem to recall thinking that whatever discussion Harry and ps had behind the scenes it was about the scene in the library, with ps claiming Harry got angry because he attacked Ron's chair, and Harry correcting him that it was the Mudblood comment that was the problem.

So if the invitations are connected to that incident, it could go both ways. Draco could be more sensitive because he's just snubbed Harry an invitation for whatever reason (and if he underneath realizes he can't invite him for "mudblood-related" issues he's got even more reason to be sensitive), or he could have been hurt by Harry calling him a prick and witheld the invitations for him and Ron then, hoping he'd get an apology. If Harry was already snubbed, that could have added heat to his defense of Hermione.

It is interesting to think this happens after LYN week, when Draco may have felt exposed and Harry briefly presumptuous, but then happy to let Draco's subsequent behavior convince him once again that he really doesn't like him. The thing with ps is he has such a habit of delayed reaction time, while Harry reacts in the moment. He seemed to handle the golf clubs revelation amazingly well, but it would be like him to only later start stressing about it and feeling vulnerable.

What was he thinking when he announced the party, then?

Yes, this is what so makes the party seem weird and the guest list reflects that with its ex-Slyths and parents. Draco's Slyth friends are there, but only Seamus was invited from outside his house. And Draco's going on about no Weasleys in the house, just like old times. So why did he want to have the party? Why was he sulking? Did he just not like his presents (go MB for making him nauseous--serves him right!)?

I continue to see PS intervention as a matter of exasperation and concern than just finding an opportunity (and how many other opportunities might there have been) to tease Harry in a friendly way.

It seems more logical for ps to be concerned (and we know he does care about Harry), I'm just keeping open the option of his being clueless, perhaps intentionally. Hermione is obviously reacting to Harry's being cavalier about Peter, not his preoccupation with his underwear, yes. But Draco could either be on the same wavelength as Hermione (the way he's often on the same wavelength as Ron concerning Harry) and so loses his patience at the same moment as she does, or he could just find that particular comment the one to pop in and mock without realizing why he needs to pop in so badly.

I'd like to think it's concern and that his further posts about Peter are him loudly denying his own fear, but he hasn't been stressed enough yet to make it a given (like when he kept loudly saying Harry WASN'T DEAD after the attack last year). I'd also like to think that the fact that this comment is what makes Draco break down and speak to Harry on the boards after avoiding it proves that he's sincerely distressed.:-) But he could also be wanting to lighten the mood to distract himself from the real danger as well.

jacay @ April 13 2004, 01:39:20 UTC

Yes, this is what so makes the party seem weird and the guest list reflects that with its ex-Slyths and parents. Draco's Slyth friends are there, but only Seamus was invited from outside his house. And Draco's going on about no Weasleys in the house, just like old times. So why did he want to have the party? Why was he sulking? Did he just not like his presents (go MB for making him nauseous--serves him right!)?

This has to have something to do with the DEs. I assumed Draco was going to get the Mark over Easter break, and that could still happen. This close to getting the Mark, would you want TBWL and his friends at the party? The Weasleys are basically all part of the Order in the fifth book, and I know that there's no Order in NA, but the Weasleys are probably still very much associated with Dumbledore. You wouldn't want them there with a bunch of ex-Slyths, right?

sistermagpie @ April 12 2004, 21:09:44 UTC

(con't)

I'm divided on whether Harry needs to do this for his own sanity, or is making the ultimate gesure of faith in Draco.

Sadly, Draco's really used to being told what to do. He's seen Harry stand up to Lucius and I think he respects that-perhaps it's significant that the one time Draco seemed to seriously defy Luicus was when he and Harry locked horns and Draco could see Harry shine? So he may just be at a loss with Harry's treating him as his own person instead of just claiming or rejecting him depending on ps' behavior. That he keeps yelling about not wanting to be told what to do could mean the opposite--why aren't you demanding I live up to your example like my family does? Though on the other hand, of course ps wouldn't want that. It's very screwed up.

If Harry's making the ultimate gesture of faith, what would the gesture be, exactly? I mean, he doesn't seem to be placing any faith in Draco being anything more than...not quite so bad as he seems, which isn't much. I'm thinking about the Q&A again, and how Harry flatly denied falling in love with Draco or anything like that. Harry's fiercely loyal to the people he claims as friends but resists putting ps in that category--not to hurt him, I'm sure, but because he doesn't seem confident that it's true. Sometimes it seems like Draco likes Harry so much without wanting to, and he's incapable of hiding it. But Harry, despite his sincere, mature efforts to make the relationship work, might at the same time not be able to let himself like Draco as much as he might, knowing who he is.

So they both hurt each other, but it seems like Harry's able to hurt Draco more, and he does it without even meaning to. Draco hurts Harry as well, but Harry seems to have a thicker skin and far more defenses. His now starting to say that Draco is hurting him could be a sign that this is starting to mean more to him. Or at least that he wants it to mean something after keeping it casual for so long (something he may feel ps is insisting on, but ps has never acted casually about it at all), given his uncertain future as TBWL.

jacay @ April 13 2004, 01:34:34 UTC

Yes! Exactly!

Anonymous @ April 12 2004, 05:06:58 UTC

No, you moron, I'm busy. Sally-Anne is still here.

To me that sounded like there weren't many other guests remaining and he was irritated that she hadn't left yet.