hated_and_loved @ April 30 2004, 02:06:23 UTC

If they devised a plan, wouldn't Harry tell Remus and Sirius about it? And just to get the Nragers speculating, probably have Harry ask them in the journals if he could talk to them privately, it's important, blah blah?

I think the most likely scenario is that j_h is ignoring ps and that Lucius and Narcissa's plan is going to happen before j_h finds out anything about it ...

sistermagpie @ April 30 2004, 02:31:03 UTC

That's what it seems like to me too. But I do wonder what ps' state of mind is. When Harry refused to help him, what did he decide to do? It seems like he's been quiet...though I guess he could have spoken with someone else, we haven't had any sign of it. He snapped into Good Son mode as soon as Lucius told him to stop going after Harry (love that he saved that entry in his memories under the title POTTER), but I wonder if he's come up with any plan of his own. I know usually he seems incapable of things like that, but he did manage to pull off the Cannons tryout in secret.

Having no idea what the hell is going on, I could see him deciding to be 100% loyal to Lucius since Harry abandoned him. I could also see him trying to come up with his own plan to handle whatever he's having to handle, a plan that might or might not be disasterous. I mean, I can see him deciding to just be loyal to Lucius but I can't see him sticking to it, really, because that would require cutting himself off from Harry, something it seems like he'd rather than threaten than do. I guess he could just be trusting that everything will work out without really having a plan. Without knowing what is going on it's hard to know if he could even come up with one.

I'm trying not to write scenarios in my head that will inevitably fall flat, but the potential of ps facing a real trial on his own while Harry has cut himself off just seems to have lots and lots of potential.

hated_and_loved @ April 30 2004, 03:13:45 UTC

Draco promised he would "do something stupid" if Harry didn't listen to him, but of course the problem is we don't know if he means going through with the plan as is, running away from it entirely, or attempting suicide. All of these theories have been brought up in previous threads, but I think the likeliest is that he's going to go along with Lucius and Narcissa.

Although Draco makes a lot of idle threats, for some reason I believe he was serious when he wrote that he'd never talk to Potter again if he didn't answer him. It may have just been a last-ditch ploy to grab Harry's attention, but I guess what I fear is that he really is resolved not to attempt to talk to Harry again after tomorrow. (How long he'll be able to stick to that resolution, especially if Harry tries to contact him, is another matter.) If we go on the assumption that he's given up on getting Harry to help him through whatever is going to happen to him tomorrow, then I think it's plausible that he's decided that no one is going to help him, and he's just going to have to go through with it.

Whatever "it" is. I've seen a lot of theories floating around, and since I think building a possible scenario is fun (though in all likelihood, totally inaccurate), here's my idea. Lucius has been comparing his situation to the Jesus/Judas betrayal, he's had cryptic conversations with Narcissa that seem to point towards a desire for greater power, he agrees with Narcissa on the similarities between the Berlin Wall, the Iron Curtain, and the Chamber of Secrets, and both of them are anticipating a great change (Death card) in their lives come Friday. I think he might really be taking on Voldemort. I have no idea what Draco could possibly have to do with this, though. Bait?

sistermagpie @ April 30 2004, 03:47:45 UTC

I think we're getting a lot of the same vibes. I've been taking his "I'll do something stupid and you'll be sorry!" and "I swear I'll never speak to you again!" somewhat seriously too, even if they were said in the heat of the moment. The theme is the same--if Harry doesn't speak to him something is going to happen that might be irrevocable, mostly because he was so desperate in those last posts I feel like he must have felt like this was it. He's tried to keep from speaking to Harry in the past--like after the almost-kiss--and he watched Harry like a hawk while he was doing it. But something about this is serious in ways he's never been before, imo. The use of default icons, the use of the word "please," the shameless crying out to nothing...

So this does seem like something different; I just can't tell exactly how it would play out. I mean, if he's threatening to do someting stupid if Harry doesn't answer him, and the "something stupid" is going along with his parents, then how could he be cutting Harry off, really? He's making a huge life decision based on him!

I think he might really be taking on Voldemort. I have no idea what Draco could possibly have to do with this, though. Bait?

It's certainly possible--or also possible that it's Voldemort that's making some move to take over something else? Narcissa says Lucius has been looking forward to whatever it is for "many moons," and he's suggested that what Draco was facing was something like what he faced at his age. Damn, I just can't imagine what use Draco would be to any plan, except perhaps that he's at Hogwarts. It seems like Draco has some idea what's at stake, but I feel like whatever's happening he probably doesn't have any way of knowing what it will be like until he experiences it.

I wonder if he's talked to Goyle. Even if it's just about cookies, he'll listen! Do you think his recent relative niceness to Goyle is in reaction to anything in particular or is it all tongue-in-cheek?

Whatever it is, it seems like it all centers on a metaphorical death. Lucius' posts have seemed to have a theme of an almost joyous embrace of possible death that validates one's existance.

hated_and_loved @ April 30 2004, 04:40:18 UTC

Draco certainly reached a level of pleading that I don't recall ever seeing from him before (which is why, by the way, I'm surprised Harry isn't at least curious to hear what Draco had to say, despite all he's done lately); whatever crisis he's facing might really be "the big one," the thing that would change his life from that moment on—getting the Dark Mark. If the meeting tomorrow is simply for that, though, then Lucius and Narcissa's remarks this week are utterly beyond me. It seems like something more than that, for all the introspection and planning they've been putting into it. It does seem like taking the Mark is part of what's going on, considering Lucius's comments about how he had a similar decision to make when he was Draco's age, and sorcery and a vow precluding him from telling Narcissa what to expect. And she's curious to see what will happen, which makes me so nauseous, by the way; I mean, this is her son this is happening to.

Draco's part in this plan, or its aftermath, may hinge on Harry somehow; in Paris, Narcissa brought up the subject of Harry and an idea involving him in some way. She was shot down, but later Lucius warmed up to her idea (though she was no longer certain about its chances). It seemed like maybe she was considering bringing Harry over to their way of thinking—which seems almost delusional, considering Harry's absolute hatred of Lucius and everything to do with Death Eaters. Unless, of course, their plan is to get rid of Voldemort. I suppose she might have thought that his relationship with Draco and a wish to kill Voldemort might have made them allies.

Regarding Goyle, I think Narcissa may have something to do with his overtures of friendship toward Draco. She sent Goyle a book, which could have included a note asking him to try to talk to Draco. I don't think she would have told him the reasons, exactly, but she may have been trying to get an idea of how Draco really feels about tomorrow or trying to ease his fears in an indirect way.

Do you think Lucius is setting himself up for self-sacrifice? Does he expect to die tomorrow?

oconel @ April 30 2004, 06:18:58 UTC

I think the most likely scenario is that j_h is ignoring ps

I'm not sure about that. I hope Harry read the posts between Draco and Lucius and saw that there was something wrong going on.

Probably wishful thinking.

tabiji @ April 30 2004, 08:18:25 UTC

Guh, I'm with you. Harry might be too damn angry to see it though. I'm optimistic about Harry having spent time with Remus. I'm hoping Remus had observed the L&N interaction and pointed it out to Harry. I suppose Narcissa could have even talked to Remus off the journals (since they've exchanged confidences before, and I really want her to be one of the good guys). If Harry and Draco have talked they'd probably make a point of keeping it off the journals (like everyone but L&N seem to be doing. Hmmm.)

As mad as Harry is, he cares about Draco. If the screened comment was Draco telling Harry what he means to him, in Harry's anger and disgust, j_h said that he didn't believe ps and seemed to think that Draco just said it to manipulate him, maybe he even thought that Draco was scheming to humiliate him as he did with Lavender. Still, at some point I would have to think that Harry's curiousity would get the better of him. If it was ps saying "I love/need/want/care/whatever", I would think that Harry would cave eventually, just because it would have been something that he'd really wanted to hear.

If the comment was something else, I would think that regular!Harry would see the desperation in the rest of the thread and want to help, but stillfuckingpissedoff!Harry may not be that forgiving. I can see Millicent intervening between the two of them again. She seems to be particularly insightful when it comes to Draco and we know she adores him like a brother and wants him to be happy.

Draco was supposed to meet with both Snape and Dumbledore. I can't see him talking to the Headmaster since Draco maintains that Dumbledore is a bit of a crackpot. I suppose he could have confided to Snape, but I don't know what Draco really thinks of Snape or his loyalties. Hmm.

I'm thinking Nott and Goyle may be on the right track, but I don't know how much help they'd really be to him.

Okay, that's a lot of babbling and I've said nothing. Nervous chatter, man. I think Millicent is our best bet.

bookofjude @ April 30 2004, 08:23:36 UTC

Insert nervous chatter here.

conversant @ April 30 2004, 19:51:30 UTC

M.B. has been quiet of late. Her silence is deafening.

black_dog @ April 30 2004, 14:03:55 UTC

You know, this really wouldn't be a proper nraged thread without at least one argument from silence. So I was trying to think of one.

Many of us, myself certainly included, have been assuming that it was the Weasley murders that provoked the recent round of introspection and scheming by Lucius and Narcissa -- just as it clearly was the Weasley business that provoked the recent round of emotional outbursts at Hogwarts. Some people have even gone so far as to say that Peter's escape from Azkaban was a distraction from the impending attack on the Weasleys. Certainly the lack of talk about Peter on all sides is kind of suspicious, isn't it?

So, what if it's the other way around? What if we take at face value the statement that the attack on the Weasleys was an accident or a mistake, and consider whether the real hidden agenda here has to do with Peter?

What might Peter's escape make possible? For all his unprepossessing ratness, we know that Peter was instrumental in working the potions and spells that brought Voldemort back to a physical body. So he's a pretty impressive wizard, at least under direction, with a specialty in resuscitating disembodied evil wizards and related skills.

Lots of directions to go with this, but just to take one possibility -- Voldemort clearly hasn't been his old, sharp self in recent attacks. Maybe he feels it's time for another makeover, a more thoroughgoing one to restore a bit more of his former vigor and mental power. He hasn't been able to do much about it with Peter locked away in Azkaban, but now's his chance.

Lucius referred to "sorcery and a vow" as preventing him from discussing "past events." Maybe those events surrounded taking the Mark, but people don't seem to be all that close-mouthed about the Mark on principle. Maybe instead it refers to events in the graveyard at the end of GoF, and we're looking at a repeat of that event, for what V expects will be a further enhancement of his powers. Draco's role in all this? Perhaps a little young, nubile Malfoy blood is just what V needs . . .

The opportunities for conspiracy and sabotage are endless, though. We know from the Harry example that this blood creates some sort of vulnerability for Voldemort. Perhaps L and N have learned how to exploit it in Draco's case. And of course, Peter himself lent a hand to V's re-embodiment, so if he's part of the conspiracy he might be able to injure or destroy V more directly. Or maybe it's just that the nature of the ceremony leaves V for a time in a very vulnerable stage.

(See new nraged motto.)

I don't know. I'm just raising possibilities. Anybody see more evidence that would build this up? Vulnerabilities that would shoot this down?

orpheusinjapan @ April 30 2004, 14:29:41 UTC

Wow, food for thought. Not sure about the entire scenario, but I do agree with the idea that Peter might be a big part of things. His escape seems to have been all but buried by the Weasley attack. That attack certainly shifted the focus from Peter's escape. And how did he escape after all?

*ponders Peter potential role in all this*

kenboy @ April 30 2004, 15:43:33 UTC

Very interesting, all this.

My basic theory is that Draco is about to be marked, or somehow or other "introduced" to Voldemort, or maybe just into the death eaters -- that this is some kind of an initiation. I think Narcissa was maybe somewhat opposed to this, wanted "a better (safer) life for her son," that sort of thing, and that even Lucius is now having some second thoughts, as he worries if Draco will make it through the trials. Makes me wonder if the DE initiation is kinda like when the Watchers came to test Buffy?

Anywho, I also think Draco is like lots of kids of the overly religious -- they maybe play along for family harmony's sake, but they don't really buy into it, especially after going away to school and seeing that the real world isn't so bad, and that the heathens (muggles) they're supposed to hate have some decent qualities.

I don't think NA would kill off someone as deeply central to the community as PS, but my prediction is that PS does something to reject his "destiny" tonight, some sort of strike, which may well result in the death/injury of a Voldemort follower -- Peter, I would bet -- and leaves PS himself gravely wounded.

I'm probably completely wrong.

I'm also finding Severus's complete absence during all this remarkably odd. And, actually, where the hell is Sirius? Undercover in the bushes with Snape, on a Dumbledore assignment, waiting to scoop up Draco after Draco chooses Light instead of Dark and gets nearly killed?

conversant @ April 30 2004, 20:00:57 UTC Peter

It's worth remembering, too, that Peter (like James Potter and Sirius Black) demonstrated precocious magical ability in learning the animagus transformation untutored and undetected at a young age. He also, of course, managed to blow a crater in a city street and kill a bunch of Muggles at a single blow.

This is a reminder that applies to canon as well as to Nraged; I think we have a tendency to think of Peter as a pathetic weakling (because he betrayed his friends, because he hid as a rat for years, because he seems drawn to Voldemort's power, because he grovelled before the Dark Lord, etc.). Peter Pettigrew may be a reprehensible rat, but if we look at the evidence of his accomplishments, we must admit that he is no slouch as a wizard.

sistermagpie @ May 1 2004, 01:17:47 UTC

Interesting! I admit I find it hard to believe the Peter storyline was *just* a misdirection as characters have said. Perhaps Peter was the real parallel for Madam Butterfly and Yum-Yum?

Personally, I've never gotten over my feeling like the rustling that Goyle heard in the woods was indeed Peter...though I have no idea what that would mean in any way.

Lucius seems to be laying it on the table that tonight is a test for Draco...suddenly I'm thinking about those coming-of-age ceremonies like the one in Roots where the boys are taken away by masked men. Could Lucius and Narcissa be expected to "play parts" in a scenario to test Draco? Both of them seem to stress that they will be playing roles tonight and I wonder if they mean it literally.

Anonymous @ April 30 2004, 15:59:05 UTC

Nothing insightful here, just wanted to state that I had a dream last night where j_h replied to ps in a thread on one of ps' old lj entries and somehow they fixed everything and when I woke up I was terribly depressed to realize it wasn't true.