sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 09:24:08 UTC

Good Lord--I think Narcissa is at her absolute worst in this post! Her vague "could this have something to do with me?" is just a hint for encouragement from people like Lupercus, imo.

I mean, this is exactly what makes her character so fabulous and her player so talented and brave: I have been up pacing half of the night. I have a cocktail party to host this evening and I can't even bring myself to think on it.

First sentence, Narcissa reminds everyone of her heavy responsibilities and makes a plea for sympathy. She's been up half the night and can't plan her cocktail party.

It is unfathomable to me that my child could lash out to me in such a hateful manner as well as do and say everything he did late last night.

First thing on her mind is that she got hurt. She's certainly not ready to admit she's been far crueler to him.

In addition to all the hurtful things he said, my child also lost all of the points for his house and had to turn in his prefect badge. Under normal circumstances that in itself would infuriate me but those things have been eclipsed by the things that he said.

She's mad that Draco lost points for Slytherin and lost his prefect badge. Yeah, that's important.

What is there even to get through to? He would not have said those things had he not felt them. There is no changing how a person feels without their consent, Merlin knows.

That first sentence is just about the most awful thing I can imagine a mother saying! Although she barely knows Draco she's ready to just give him up for lost. I guess he was a bad seed. Oh well. I'm glad I'm not as awful as he is but he doesn't want to change. Um, how would this woman know he didn't want to change?

When he was younger we had a constant array of instructors and nannies that helped to mold Draco into the person he is today. I have always stood by that belief. But I can't help but to think that, aside from exuding aristocratic ways that he was learned, those people are not at fault here. They did what they could with him.

Here she flat out says that Draco was just a horrible person from infancy and all the effort put into him was for naught because he was just born inferior.

I was not ready to have a child when Draco came along. My mother never had any children besides myself and I was never around children. Taking care of an infant or small child was something that made me very nervous so I did rely heavily on the support staff at the Manor in his youth. Now that he is older and I feel more comfortable donning the role of a mother, I have been trying my very best to make sure that my child is happy and healthy and knows that his mother will always be there for him.

First, nice job announcing that Draco wasn't wanted or enjoyed as a baby. Second, you can't don the role of mother when your child is 17. This is a lot of where ps's pain comes from, imo. That Narcissa now expects him to treat her like a mother when she's ignored him for so long, knowing she'll probably lose interest again anyway. Already j_h gets equal treatment for being polite. She hasn't once truly acted like his mother, just as an older woman who suddenly finds him amusing. The last sentence is, of course, just sad. She's made it clear she will not always be there for him. In fact, she's never been and never will be. This post is all about distancing herself from the embarassing failure that is Draco.

Maybe I was too late.

Too late with what? She hasn't done anything! I love how Narcissa constantly mistakes her fantasies of herself with realities!

Is all of this some reaction to me?

Or is it a reaction to his father? Lucius can be so very hard on him at times.

Yeah, Lucius is hard on him. Lovely Lucius for Lucius browbeating him and filling him with racist propaganda until he choked on it.

</i>Merciful Merlin I cannot concentrate on much of anything.

I need to refresh my drink. </i>

And everything is back to normal. Narcissa will be good and numb when she goes to watch Draco annhilated by Lucius. Can't wait!

::loves Narcissa and her player::

notapipe @ April 26 2003, 09:32:45 UTC

*bows on hands and knees*

Wow. That was brilliant. You're right, she is being a horrible mother. I was too busy squeeing over the NPR bit to care, and certianly didn't notice it to the extent you did until now.

One question though. What SHOULD she do anyway? So she was a horrible mother before. Say she wants to fix it. What should she be doing? I think this is the problem Narcissa is having, and I don't know what she should be doing, and neither does she.

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 10:28:10 UTC

Thanks! I admit this is kind of a hot button with me. For some reason nothing hits me more deeply than seeing a kid told he's worthless. Sometimes it's just the most casual comment. I've seen that happen in front of me and it just...I don't know. This is exactly the thing that children use to define themselves. I'm not really angry at Narcissa, exactly. Her post just makes me flinch. I can't imagine how anybody can read her saying things like "they did what they could with him" and even worse: "What is there even to get through to?" and think this has anything to do with her being clueless about motherhood. This is something one says about someone that one sees no worth in. She doesn't value him and he knows it. I would be surprised if she could come up with one real compliment about him as a person, as opposed to something superficial or something he's succeeded at or done for her.

Of course it's a lot harder to say what she should do--I would probably be a far from perfect mother as well! But it seems to me that the obvious thing is to for once look at what Draco is saying to her. He's brought up her not knowing his age, her rarely noticing when he was going through something, his insecurity over Potter. Narcissa noticed Draco seemed upset when they went to Hogsmeade--was she perhaps going on about Harry there too, or was it just her leaving the Manor that upset him? He's also brought up her constantly telling him what a sacrifice it is to be his mother. He's been relatively clear about where his problems lie, but each time she's just refused to accept those things and preferred to look for some issue that didn't involve her instead.

This, imo, is the obvious way for her to start being a mother now. Talk to the kid rather than talk at him about clothes and what you're doing and what things about him please you. Try to get him to articulate how he feels she's hurt him and for god's sakes be ready to accept responsibility for that. Then try--honestly--to make him feel better. It's easy for her to say she wants him to feel loved and happy. She keeps saying that while making him feel just the opposite. When she senses he's upset she acts like he's under some crazy influence rather than reacting to anything real. Really, I think this would go a long long way towards diffusing his anger in ways that further humiliation with house elves, as deserved as they may be, will not.

sheron @ April 26 2003, 13:56:47 UTC

He's been relatively clear about where his problems lie, but each time she's just refused to accept those things and preferred to look for some issue that didn't involve her instead.

I noticed that she seems to think leaving Lucius was huge help to PS.
Was it really?
All it got PS is further insults from his futher about being "mommie's boy".
Although... I think when she first left, Draco was all over her, trying to talk and spend time with her. But then she spent more time with Harry, even after leaving Lucius, and I think that's when Draco knew she isn't going to change after all. It hadn't been his father's influence. She really doesn't understand him.

Of course that's just my spin on things.

tropes @ April 26 2003, 09:35:56 UTC

Excellently well said.

I can't help but hope that some sort of epiphany will come to SOMEONE through all this agony. Perhaps it's just too much to hope for.

Kudos to everyone at N_A. So very well-played.

Anonymous @ April 26 2003, 09:37:56 UTC

Under normal circumstances that in itself would infuriate me but those things have been eclipsed by the things that he said.

did you miss that bit?

i think everyone's demanding too much of narcissa too soon. have you ever been a society wife? neither have i but her posts make me realise i take independence and my free spirit for granted. i can't imagine life if that had been bred/married out of me. yet that still happens even today.

narcissa's a good mom at heart. she just needs to learn to put theory to practise. this is a huge undertaking for her to face on her own straight away, and i think she's doing her best. it's all she can do. she's got no help unless you count remus. and he's never been a mother so what the heck does he know?

notapipe @ April 26 2003, 09:39:35 UTC

He seems to be doing a pretty good job of being a god-father and mother to Harry...

Anonymous @ April 26 2003, 09:45:49 UTC

and that's good but he's still got no idea what it means to be a mother and be alone. all narcissa's ever had for comfort is her booze, a house-elf, her credit cards and her love for her son. i just think she's stronger than people give her credit for is all.

notapipe @ April 26 2003, 09:50:14 UTC

So somehow ovaries instantly make being a parent harder? I'm sorry, I didn't realize.

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 10:07:03 UTC

Funny, when I read this sentence: "and that's good but he's still got no idea what it means to be a mother and be alone. all narcissa's ever had for comfort is her booze, a house-elf, her credit cards and her love for her son."

I expected that last part to be "her son's love for her." She's had that for years and given it no value whatsoever, preferring the booze, the house-elves and the credit cards. She was alone for exactly, what, five minutes before Lupercus showed up on the white horse? Now she's got Lucius as well. How is she possibly alone in this situation?

i just think she's stronger than people give her credit for is all.

I don't think her problem is not being strong. She's been taught to feign weakness for manipulation and it shows.

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 10:01:30 UTC

Under normal circumstances that in itself would infuriate me but those things have been eclipsed by the things that he said.

did you miss that bit?

No, I cut it because the post was too long.;-) But this is a classic passive-aggressive manouever. She says that in normal circumstances it would infuriate her--so gets in that it's infuriating. She's not passing it over at all. She just can't resist getting that little dig in.

There are certain things that I have great sympathy for regarding Narcissa, but being a horrible mother isn't one of them. Being a society wife doesn't preclude being a mother. I just don't see that it's asking too much to refrain from saying that your child is worthless, which is what Narcissa is doing here. She doesn't have to suddenly become supermom and change Draco, she just has to be there for him. This has nothing to do with independence or being under Lucius' thumb. He's not the one encouraging her to see things this way this time. This is Narcissa saying exactly how she feels.

It's a shame that Lupercus is right there to let her off the hook. He seems to just see himself as her protector, sheilding her from the her own low self-esteem or whatever. He's right to say that Narcissa isn't responsible for Draco's actions, but it's surprising he actually falls for the idea that Narcissa is blaming herself in this post. I usually think his support of her as a good thing, but I think it's really sad how everyone but Vector is ready to buy the whole "Draco was born evil" idea.

I have a friend who says, "The single relationship in your life for which you are not totally responsible is the one you have with your parents." I see that at work in ps. I hold him responsible for his bad relationships with everyone except these two. Draco has done almost all the work in his relationship with them: he makes excuses for them, he accepts humiliation and insult from them, he tries to be what they want him to be.

notapipe @ April 26 2003, 10:06:26 UTC

But Remus is right, "It won't do him any good for you, your husband or anyone else for that matter to dwell on the past and the things that you cannot change. The best thing you can do is be a parent for him now, which you are doing, and all you can do is your best. The rest is up to him."

So she sucked. That was the past. She can't change the past (as evidenced by PoA, it is impossible to change the past).

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 10:13:34 UTC

I do think Remus is right about that. What frightens me is that he says she should just be a good parent now, as if she is...when this post simply makes me fear for Draco more. (Of course Lupin could just feel what she needs now is encouragement, which I can understand.)

Dwelling on the past isn't going to fix things, however in this situation there's a lot of past hurts that do need to be addressed. That's part of the problem, imo. Narcissa thinks she can just suddenly be a mom now and really does want any past things stricken from the record. But it doesn't work that way with childhood--that's why people spend so long in therapy.

For instance, Draco finally confronted her on her forgetting his age, which is very out of the ordinary for him. But rather than apologize or even acknowledge how that must have hurt him she just brushed it off. He's voiced this kind of thing a lot in the past few weeks, how she can't just decide to change things and expect him to be up to speed, how she can't teach moral lessons that are affected by mood swings. Just as Draco must accept that consequences of his actions so must the Malfoys.

katrionaa @ April 26 2003, 10:07:23 UTC

I agree with Anonymous. Let's cut Narcissa some slack, she's not the first mother who didn't adore her baby and had difficulty adjusting to the role. Just because she's becoming more active and involved late doesn't mean she doesn't care about Draco. And better late than never.

Narcissa sounds like a typical rich society wife to me. Servants have done everything for her, including raise the baby. All she has to do is be beautiful and entertain her husband's business associates. Recently she found that she couldn't support Lucius in something, I say good for her for finding her own voice. But she's got the rich wife role well ingrained, it will be hard for her to overcome but I bet she can do it. And being a better, more involved parent to Draco will be part of that.

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 13:20:20 UTC

Just to clarify one thing there--I don't blame Narcissa for not adoring her baby or not adjusting immediately to the role at all. I'm blaming her for telling Draco and everyone else that in response to his bad behavior. Remember this is the actual baby who's going to be reading this, along with his classmates, and she never got over this nervousness around him. Talking about him this way is degrading and humiliating.

katrionaa @ April 26 2003, 14:17:15 UTC

I think compassion is something Narcissa will be learning (along with Draco).

My guess is that she blurted this out without realizing how hurtful it would be to Draco. I'm not saying that excuses it, just that she isn't intentionally cruel (which I think Lucius is at times), she's simply not good at relating on an emotional level. And really, where would she have learned that? Clearly not from her family or marriage. I don't get the feeling Narcissa has any real friends either, other than Remus and of course he hasn't been around all that much.

sistermagpie @ April 26 2003, 14:35:28 UTC

Oh, I totally agree. That's what makes the whole situation so tragic. Narcissa, as her name implies, just really doesn't understand how to do this correctly. She has a sense that she wants Draco happy but that's really what it is--she wishes he was happy. She doesn't know how to go about doing that, and she's not ready to modify her own behavior to do it. That's what so beautiful about her as a character. She's more just thoughtless and careless with love, just as she is about everything else. That would probably be okay with a husband other than Lucius. But he's so intentionally cruel that she becomes an accomplice to that.

sheron @ April 26 2003, 13:50:55 UTC

What is there even to get through to?
That first sentence is just about the most awful thing I can imagine a mother saying!

Me too. I was just horrified. The way I read it... she refers to him as 'what', not 'who'.

slinkhard @ April 27 2003, 04:26:53 UTC

Great, thought provoking comments from everyone.
Sister Magpie, I may have to fangirl you!
I notice nowhere in her post does Narcissa mention ever having loved her child or still loving him.
Yes, he said some disgusting things. But he's a human being, and no happy, well cared for person is filled with hate without being very unhappy, and I don't see any concern about that.
Props to all the players, since all of this is very IC.