orpheusinjapan @ June 6 2003, 06:05:03 UTC

Just saw that. Looking forward to seeing what happens next. Will be interesting to see what the comment count is at when I wake up in the morning.

*off to bed*

neveth @ June 6 2003, 07:15:55 UTC

!! Blasted N_A! Keeping me up late with the angst!

And now the fallout begins. ;_; I weep for Seamus/Dean. You know, I'm actually thinking Boot provoked this incident, hoping to split Seamus/Dean. I'm not sure whether to be mad at Boot or Dean.

And Dean should REALLY learn not to take everything Boot offers. Yargh.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 07:25:01 UTC

I think he must have! He got him drunk and suggested they draw on each other's naked bodies, then made sure to remind Dean about it and give him more whiskey!

How very Slytherin of him!

neveth @ June 6 2003, 07:46:42 UTC

I am also getting the sense this has happened many times before. Dean seems to wake up under the stairs with no recollection of the night before quite often, methinks.

Boot should be Slytherin. He's not paranoid enough for Hufflepuff, but crafty in his purple-beans way. ARGH, Boot.

cadeyrn @ June 6 2003, 09:20:49 UTC

One does wonder why exactly Boot is in Ravenclaw. I haven't picked up much in the way of his intellectual capabilities, besides, of course, his elite little schemes. It really does look like he's been trying to get Dean for a long time.

Poor Dean :/ too nice and easy-going; Seamus, in my opinion, too high-strung when it comes to relationships. But they were cute when they were together.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 09:44:30 UTC

Dean is gullible. Plain and simple. Dean cannot say No either. Methinks he should learn.

Boot is... I don't know. My thoughts of him at the moment put him near to or almost on the same manipulitave level as Pansy, and that's a little scary. Also, I think Boot will drop Dean as soon as he gets him. Boot wants the un-attainable, so when he gets it, he gets bored very quickly. Perhaps that was M.B.'s plan with him from the start, give him what he wanted so he would leave her alone.

Poor Seamus. And poor Dean too, but for different reasons.

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 13:45:21 UTC

Well, houses are forever. I'm sure when he was little he showed lots of promise for that. But then he changed, got involved in taking copious amounts of drugs, being a goth, etc, and kind of squandered what he had. I've seen it happen in meatspace, and I'm sure you have too. Some smart guy ends up smoking way too much pot, doesn't do their work or anything, falls in among the "stupid kids" or drops out. Intellectual capabilities don't nessecarily imply good judgement.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 10:13:44 UTC

What's this then? Was this all just a drunken misunderstanding? Is Boot much more evil and manipulative than we thought? Only time will tell. Or SisterMagpie XD

sheron @ June 6 2003, 11:18:02 UTC

Boot seems to be flaunting what happened with Dean. ("long, sticky, groping evening") Obviously he wants people to know, and is using M.B. to do it.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 12:16:08 UTC

[deleted post because I left something out]

I agree. Boy, did my opinion of Boot go down last night. And Dean too. Argh!

DEAN AND BOOT :

>:O

anjaliesque @ June 6 2003, 13:28:06 UTC

Anyone else thinking that Remus sounds a bit hypocritical here? I mean, I love him and all, but if anyone can appreciate forgiving and forgetting, it should be him. Wasn't it he who kissed Fred because he was "lonely," an excuse that Sirius promptly rejected and left them both in pain? Remus felt alone at the part without Sirius, just as Dean felt abandoned by Seamus, and both had been drunk in their respective situations. Dean turned to Terry right next to him, Fred may have always had a bit of a crush on Remus. So where does the good Professor get off telling Dean he's "really quite disappointed?" He should know how much Dean has to be hurting now, full of regret and misery and a really bad hangover, and should be there helping him through it. >:(

neveth @ June 6 2003, 13:40:28 UTC

But think of all those times Dean has woken up under the stairs, un-remembering the past night, after a meeting with Boot? I think Seamus is justified, in that, really, he can only take so much before he breaks. Lupin understands that this PROBBABLY isn't a one-time occurance, whether or not Dean remembers it. Nothing will change until Dean STOPS GETTING high/drunk with Boot.

Dean should have talked about his problem with Malfory with SEAMUS, not whinging about it to Terry. And I get the sneaking suspicion Dean encouraged Ron to be around him constantly in order to make Seamus jealous.

Ah, but enough of why I'm peeved at Dean, eh?

anjaliesque @ June 6 2003, 13:52:31 UTC

You're right, I'd forgotten that Dean's blunders are really a series of them. And Seamus is still only a teenager, he can't be expected to keep coming back to the boy who he feels betrayed him. But then, you can't expect Dean either to have complete commitment, especially when he feels unhappy and abandoned. Sometimes I feel we expect a little too much from these teenage relationships- long-term commitments are rare in this age group, and perhaps not quite as beneficial later in life as varied teenage dating can be.

That doesn't mean I adore Dean/Seamus any less, of course. I agree Dean should've talked to Seamus, but I suppose it appears to him, and much more when he is drunk, that Terry has been there for him more than Seamus. I don't think he encouraged Ron, though. I don't think he's that spiteful. He might blame Draco, but never Seamus.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 14:08:21 UTC

Hopefully, Seamus can accecpt that Dean /is/ sorry for his actions. I'm sure if he could remember any of the altercations after the fact he'd probbably have told Seamus immediately and been extremely apoligetic.

And yes, we do tend to place a great deal of importance on these relationships, more so than sometimes we should. I personally have been spoiled (I am still with my boyfriend, er fiancee, after 3 years and we met in high school) and so I am suseptable to that.

No, Dean isn't that spiteful, you're right. Humm. Terry is looking more and more, well, malicious, in his motives.

anjaliesque @ June 6 2003, 14:21:07 UTC

You're very lucky. :)

I'd love for them to get back together, if only because they provide such a nice steady love. Hm, maybe this view again places too much assumption on their relationship. Still, I think they're lovely together, and that other possible pairs (Seamus/Draco? Dean/Boot?) would not be nearly as satisfying for any of them.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 14:32:13 UTC

Thank you. :)

I don't think Dean/Boot would ever get off the ground. Boot's too enthralled with the unreachable. Seamus Draco is plausible, but more than likely not possible. I really don't think Seamus is that attracted to him, and Seamus wouldn't do something to hurt Harry like that. As for the two of them getting back together? I truly hope so. They fit so well together and they are/were a Great And T00by Love. I suppose we can only hope at this point. They may not yet be mature enough to look past it to the future. Although now that I think about it, Remus is probbably giving Seamus advice on what to do. Remus has seen Dean's side of this kind of mess and might be able to help Seamus deal with it. *hopes*

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 14:28:03 UTC

Not to mention that they're gay males, and in our culture those aren't exactly the most stable of relationships, sad to say.

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 13:53:01 UTC

Dean kept records this time, so he very well might. I think it was for this reason that he kept records. If he hadn't, Dean would have just woken up, not knowing what's going on, and rushed off to class again. And maybe Seamus wouldn't have known, but he'd keep doing it, because he doesn't know better.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 13:59:35 UTC

I am eternally glad Dean kept records this time, as I feared he would never break the cycle. Granted, this may have cost him his boyfriend (and a GATL), but now he KNOWS not to trust a Boot bearing gifts.

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 14:05:06 UTC

One of his real problems might be that he likes blackcurrant beans too much and isn't as discriminating at colors as he ought to be. I honestly think that the night before last could be tantamount to date rape. Though it's possible that they drank rather than ate beans. It's not clear. But you can see in setting up that date Dean does work (though really, asking Terry for any shade of purple colored beans is dangerous) to avoid the drug!beans.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 14:12:26 UTC

They got drunk as Terry brought a bottle of Firewiskey with him. Dean WAS much better about the beans, he IS learning, but he immediately took a drink from the bottle when Terry offered it. There was the fatal mistake. But I am proud of him for making sure any beans present were the blackcurrant ones and not the fabled purple beans.

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 14:17:58 UTC

No, there are two occurances. The FIRST occurance was with the drawing and the blackcurrant beans, and I think given the level of memory lapse Dean had, and that they've got most of Terry's bottle of Firewhiskey, it's certianly not reasonable to assume it's the same bottle. It might be a different bottle that they drained, but the beans would be easier.

The second occurance, we KNOW of the whiskey. Also, Dean falls for the stupidest getting drunk line ever "here, drink this alcohol that makes you stupid, it will jog your memory". But I agree that he made his mistake there last night.

neveth @ June 6 2003, 14:24:46 UTC

I forget about the first 'date' sorry about that. ARGH! Dean never learned, did he? I wouldn't put it past Boot to slip purple beans in there with the blackcurrant ones.

Dean is so very gullible.

Dean, Dean. *feels like a parent*

So now we agree Dean has done some really dumb things, but should now go try his damndest to get Seamus back?

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 16:52:55 UTC

Yes, but I must say it won't be easy with much of the house apparently blaming Seamus. Too many people involved when they shouldn't be and pointing fingers, I think...

cadeyrn @ June 6 2003, 17:24:37 UTC

I have to admit I don't really like Seamus and I'd be one of the finger pointers. He's a bit of a drama queen. But what Dean did ... was so ... er.. silly. He'll have to do something huge to get Seamus back, and even with that Seamus would probably say no.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 17:46:35 UTC

Oh, I think it's fine for "us" to point fingers (go us!;-). Even with the characters I think it's fine for them to all have their opinions about it. I just mean that in general if a couple has a fight it's better if their friends don't get involved too. That's going to make things more difficult for both of them, I'd think.

notapipe @ June 7 2003, 00:25:01 UTC

Apparently Hermoine doesn't blame Seamus. Though she's being rather... what's the word?

sistermagpie @ June 7 2003, 08:36:01 UTC

Interfering definitely, but also...7th-grade-girl something?

black_dog @ June 6 2003, 13:41:03 UTC

Yeah, it's a very good point about Remus and Fred. And it's a little suprising to see Remus taking sides, in any event, rather than acting as a mediator. A couple points, maybe, in Remus' defense: first, after all, he only kissed Fred, where Dean and Boot seem to have done a bit more; and second, sometimes it's human nature to be a bit harsher on people when you see them repeating your own screwup, since Remus understands this one inside and out and has probably been quite harsh on himself.

What do you make of Boot in all this? I haven't really seen him as malicious, before now -- more of an irresponsible fantasist, at worst. But he really played on Dean's anxieties here, seemingly deliberately, and with nasty results.

notapipe @ June 6 2003, 13:56:16 UTC

He only kissed Fred, but then again, someone kind of interrupted their kiss. Remember, there was intervention in Remus's case, which is fundamentally different from Dean's case (though Draco very well might have been able to). Who knows what might have happened if Sirius hadn't stumbled in on them?

anjaliesque @ June 6 2003, 14:09:02 UTC

I think it's a good point about Remus being harsher on those who make his own mistakes. It's understandable that it might be frustrating and saddening. I don't think he should have chastised Boot when he knows how much himself it hurts to accidentally betray your lover, and a peaceful mediator stance would have been helpful. But I suppose this struck a little to close too home.

There is something a little odd about Boot, yes. A bit as if he had been aiming for this all along- getting in Dean's pants, I mean. I think he still has a rather worshipful love-from-afar for Millicent, but her recent lack of unattainable-ness (I choose to think of it being that she doesn't have Pansy occupying her anymore, as I'm all about the Millicent/Pansy) seems to turn him off a little. I think he's still an irresponsible fantasist, as you described, just with a the goal of getting Dean because he's so very unattainable and already attached. Same as Dean said himself, actually, before things got carried away. I don't think Boot was doing it to make a point, or to take revenge on either Dean or Seamus. I think he was just searching for his own pleasures and amusement, to sate his own desires, which not much thought for anything else. Hence wild nights under the stairs and purple beanage. Is there a term for that sort of person? A sensualist, a voluptuary? That's how I see Boot.

anjaliesque @ June 6 2003, 14:22:53 UTC *thinking too much*

And because I'm thinking about this too much...

I just found myself wondering if a little separation would be good for Dean and Seamus. I'm sort of taking Remus/Sirius as an example here, since the parallel seems to work so well. The details are hazy in my mind, but I recall Sirius being with Snape and Remus being along or with Charlie (was there anyone else? *can't remember*) and now they're back together and even married, happier than ever before.

Ah, but now that I remember this, perhaps my earlier comparison needs to be reversed. Surely Remus has had more cheating done on him than he cheated? Taking cheating at the broadest sense of the word. I'm remembering the countless people that Sirius has slept with, and how Remus, after thinking he wad dead for 13 years, suffered his relationship with Snape taking place right in front of him. Though we all applaud Remus taking pride in the fact the he is the only person who occurs twice on Sirius's enormous list of conquests, one has to admit it's still a wee bit pathetic. Such a rover, that Sirius is.

So I suppose it's possible that Remus was overly harsh because he has had the same thing happen to him so often. And he doesn't like to relive the painful memories.

black_dog @ June 6 2003, 14:42:31 UTC Re:

Is there a term for that sort of person?

*laughs* Acually, after reading his first response to M.B. --

Millicent! Oh God, Millie, do you forgive me?

The term that came to mind was "moral idiot," ;) Usually a harmless one, but perhaps today we've seen it can be dangerous, too.

What's your take on MB/TB? I see M.B. as endlessly self-amused, and not really taking TB seriously at all. I think she saw "riding him like a bad, bad, pony" as an amusing way of giving him the shock of his life and something he badly needed.

I thought her remark this morning, "is that a problem, Boot?" Played off Boot's "You're still here," and implied that Boot was putting on a show for Draco and implicitly anyone else who was watching. I think she disapproves of Boot/Dean. Could she even disapprove of Draco's failure to intervene, knowing that his friend Seamus was about to get hurt? But I may be over-reading.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 15:49:09 UTC

What's your take on MB/TB? I see M.B. as endlessly self-amused, and not really taking TB seriously at all. I think she saw "riding him like a bad, bad, pony" as an amusing way of giving him the shock of his life and something he badly needed.


Yeah, I think she's got his number. She's not stupid. Terry only got interested in her again when she popped up. Who would fall for that, "somewhere in the middle of the sticky groping I forgot I loved you?" Even Dean drunkenly pointed out he only likes the unattainable.

I thought her remark this morning, "is that a problem, Boot?" Played off Boot's "You're still here," and implied that Boot was putting on a show for Draco and implicitly anyone else who was watching. I think she disapproves of Boot/Dean. Could she even disapprove of Draco's failure to intervene, knowing that his friend Seamus was about to get hurt? But I may be over

I thought it was significant that M.B. was answering for Draco. M.B. doesn't like Seamus at all so I can't imagine her being upset that he gets hurt, particularly if it's over being friends with Draco, something M.B. doesn't like either.

black_dog @ June 6 2003, 16:05:58 UTC Re:

M.B. doesn't like Seamus at all so I can't imagine her being upset that he gets hurt

I thought about that, but does one really follow from the other? Depressing, if true, especially for someone who's otherwise so judgmental about emotional dishonesty and betrayal. Also, in strictly pragmatic terms, I can see her being nervous about a Seamus/Dean breakup before Harry/Draco is consolidated, if only out of her own desire not to have Seamus around.

Anonymous @ June 6 2003, 16:17:05 UTC

((Depressing, if true, especially for someone who's otherwise so judgmental about emotional dishonesty and betrayal.))

Are you referring to MB ?
Because I think she doesnt really care about people other than her friends
Draco and Pansy only it seems

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:03:03 UTC

I think she likes to tell people she is on to them and hence finds their emotional dishonesty/betrayals amusing. Except with Draco and Pansy.

Anonymous @ June 6 2003, 23:52:12 UTC

I don't think Boot is being serious here either, though... the line about the the sticky gropping and forgetting he loved her sounded more like classic slytherin snarkiness to me. I think Boot has gotten a little more cynical about MB and is going to try to take her on in Slytherin fashion, if, of course, that's what he still wants to do. To be honest, I can't see his plying Dean with drugs (repeatedly!) as anything other than purposeful, and thus, in light of Dean's relationship, malicious.

-HedgeMouse

Anonymous @ June 6 2003, 23:44:50 UTC

I'd say hedonist. It works.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 15:42:24 UTC

I think there's another serious point here for Seamus that the characters--although maybe not Remus--are ignoring. It doesn't make Remus any more able to judge, though, given that he's guilty of this too.

It's not just that Dean cheated on Seamus. Seamus keeps being told he deserves this, that it's revenge for his being with Malfoy. Seamus has said over and over again that this isn't true, yet it still gets used against him. Dean doesn't believe him, Terry uses it, Ron doesn't believe him. Even if Dean hadn't gotten naked with Terry I think this would hurt him.

Like I said Remus did this too when he assumed the worst about Sirius, but then has Seamus done anything like Sirius?

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:06:36 UTC

Seamus keeps being told he deserves this, that it's revenge for his being with Malfoy.

But only by Ron, I think. And Ron is rather biased where Malfoy is concerned.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 17:41:53 UTC

Ron's the main person, but I was thinking also of Percy (not that he's all that important to Seamus), Terry and most importantly Dean. Malfoy's name is still all over the place in this, despite him not being the one with bodypaint.

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:44:34 UTC Re:

Ron is biased. Terry is biased.
Percy is obviously missinformed, as Seamus points out.

I don't doubt that he'd be offended, but I think Harry and Dean would be the people who would hurt him most in this case. The others are just adding oil to the fire.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 17:53:21 UTC

I agree. It's more like they're just making him more irritated by getting involved (especially Terry, of course). You're right that Dean and Harry are the only people he likely cares about here.

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:56:28 UTC Re:

I can see him being on Draco's side in any future 'duels' between Draco and Boot. Ha.

It's actually quite amusing to watch how that dynamic played out. Draco and Boot were supposed to duel but both didn't show up. Dean got hurt as a result of their weird antics. Seamus was angry at both.

Then Dean ended up with Boot and Seamus with Malfoy, however platonical or not it was. How things change.

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:11:57 UTC

Anyone else thinking that Remus sounds a bit hypocritical here?

I do, but it is perhaps not a bad idea for Dean to know that Seamus is not over-reacting. And some one in position of authority needs to say it.

I hope Remus doesn't get too much heat for this, because he is being hypocritical, but it's a "do as I say, not as I do" case, which at least has best intentions in mind.

theantimodel @ June 6 2003, 16:16:02 UTC

Is anyone else worried that this whole debacle could cause Seamus to turn to Draco for a little revenge of his own? After all, Dean already thinks he's messing around with Draco, now there's really not much holding him back.

Also I can't remember if anyone commented on this already, but in Draco's post to Dean, never once does he make the male/female distinction between Pansy and Seamus. Maybe it is implied, but somehow I don't think so. It really seemed more like Draco's only real argument against Seamus was the halfblood thing.

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:09:19 UTC

Is anyone else worried that this whole debacle could cause Seamus to turn to Draco for a little revenge of his own?

I think Seamus is the type of person to be "noble" about being hurt. He doesn't seem to be the type to be petty, and certainly seems to value people's feelings above playing them like that. IMHO.

sistermagpie @ June 6 2003, 17:43:18 UTC

Yeah, I can't imagine him doing that exactly but I do wonder if this incident will bring him closer to Draco or not. Seems like there are several ways this could draw them closer--not necessarily as boyfriends, of course, but just as friends.

sheron @ June 6 2003, 17:49:52 UTC Re:

I'm all for friends!

Prior to this I'd been worried about Draco perhaps wanting to 'experiment' with someone who's gay and not Harry. Now though, I really don't see Draco getting involved with Seamus (no matter Seamus' intentions). It's just too messy and uncontrollable for him.

Though who knows. Draco isn't commenting at all for some reason.

notapipe @ June 7 2003, 00:29:47 UTC

I'm with Sinistra on this.