wednesday_tea @ August 3 2003, 14:59:23 UTC

*Weeps profusely, cheers herself up by going to see POTC. Again.*

I hope they patch things up. ;_; Waaah. *Wibbles*

dry_your_eyes @ August 3 2003, 15:03:28 UTC

This does not bode well.
why? it's IC of Sirius to say these things. I'd be surprised if we started to say only pathetic excuses.
and i suppose the lack of respose from Remus is a good sign

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 15:18:37 UTC

That's the problem. Remus has asked him to stop doing the one thing that has not only the potential to damage their relationship, but is also hurting their child. And Sirius appears to be refusing to even consider it. If Remus accepts this behavior, then he is subjugating his own needs. If he doesn't accept it, then where does that leave the relationship?

And if Sirius continues in this vein (with Lucius), then Harry's feelings of self-worth where Sirius is concerned will be damaged.

dry_your_eyes @ August 3 2003, 15:45:15 UTC

right, and seems like Sirius starts to understand how wrong he was.
but Harry needs to understand his parents (it was really sweet to read our son!) are not perfect,

untiemybinds @ August 3 2003, 16:01:43 UTC

I think Harry realises his parents aren't perfect, he has too, especially considering all that's happened since they've gotten together.

But, erm, I think the fact that it's the boy Harry likes' father has the potential for hurting Harry and 'squicking' him as well.

It all really leads to how much Remus -- and Harry -- are willing to take from Sirius. I mean, if it keeps continuing along this path of Sirius 'cheating' there's a large chance it will end badly.

*wibbles*

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 16:08:11 UTC

(it was really sweet to read our son!)

Where? Link me.

I think Harry realizes they're not perfect. This goes further than that. The only father figure Harry has ever known is flirting (and hinting at more) with the very man who supports someone who wants him dead, and is also the father of the boy he's crushing on. We're talking above and beyond unnacceptable behavior.

untiemybinds @ August 3 2003, 16:44:07 UTC

That's right here. I just linked to the exact message because it's easier. He called him his godson before that, though, and Remus calls him his oddson from time to time.

I totally agree with you, and that's practically what I posted above you, here.

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 16:56:18 UTC

Thanks!

We must've been writing at about the same time. :D

dry_your_eyes @ August 4 2003, 00:13:31 UTC

had gone off-line before your comment arrived, so didn't link you right away
wanted to do it now, but it's already done :)

dragynville @ August 4 2003, 00:24:53 UTC

No problem! I got offline shortly after to go swimming myself. :)

saffronlie @ August 3 2003, 16:23:05 UTC

Yes. Sirius had to be the one to make this move, but it's not the right one, not quite. Remus said he'd do anything for Sirius to stop 'talking' to Lucius, but Sirius persists with the "I was just talking" and won't explain or address the issue directly. 'This is the way I am' is no excuse. They're married now and need to work through problems like this and compromise (not that I know about marriage at all, but I really want these two to work it out in a way that doesn't hurt Remus or Harry).

And did they both spend the night in the garden, then?! Was Harry the sole occupant of the house, or out in the garden too?

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 16:45:07 UTC

Sirius is displaying the same hard-nosed, uncompromising, 'take me or leave me' attitude that my eldest brother has. And what does he have to show for it? Two failed marriages and non-existent relationships with all three of his children.

I SO don't want to see Sirius and Remus go down that path. ;_;

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 16:42:09 UTC

Remus replies! And he's sticking to his guns. Yay! Now if Sirius will just be reasonable and listen, really listen, to what he's saying, they may have a chance.

*biting nails down to the quick*

untiemybinds @ August 3 2003, 16:46:56 UTC

I really believe that Sirius should be able to do this. Especially since all Remus is asking is that he stops flirting and talking to Lucius and is giving Sirius permission to flirt with everyone else besides Lucius because 'that is his nature.'

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 17:03:55 UTC

Exactly! He's not making unreasonable demands, he's not asking him to change. He's only asking him to stop messing with one person out of the whole flippin' world. And it's especially not unreasonable to ask him to quit hurting their child. The child they have taken responsibilty for.. not only for his life, but also the quality of his life.

untiemybinds @ August 3 2003, 17:18:40 UTC

And Harry's quality of life has been so poor before now, well "family" wise.

Gods, adults screw up everything for the ickle children. I want to hug Harry. At least Remus is playing Snap with him and Sirius might be.

dragynville @ August 3 2003, 17:26:43 UTC

Yes, even more reason for Sirius (especially) to give him a few good family moments. Harry's practically an adult and will be leaving the nest soon, there isn't much time left to give him the stablity and quality his 'home-life' has lacked thus far.

Anonymous @ August 3 2003, 18:01:30 UTC

Both Sirius and Lucius are married men. Why does it always seem like only Lupin and Harry being painfully affected by this affair? What about Narcissa and Draco? Doesn't she have any problem with Lucius' infidelity at all? Has Draco ever shown any kinds of reactions towards this? Or he just watches and speculates it like one episode of a day-time soap opera.

When did Lucius and Sirius start shagging? When they were students or just last year?

sistermagpie @ August 3 2003, 18:29:36 UTC

Actually, I think this might be a long-standing thing in that household--Lucius' infidelity that is--something that effects a lot of what they do. Like, we see how Draco, Pansy and Millicent all seem to be the kinds of kids that bond over unreliable parents. Narcissa in the past has chosen to be willfully ignorant of things like this and sometimes allows him to distract her with gifts and liquor sometimes. I think Draco is aware of this kind of thing and it probably upsets him, but the family keeps up a public facade of being fine no matter what. The family has a different dynamic. Not necessarily a better one, but different. Sirius, for instance, has been really hostile to ps in the past (like when he hurt Harry) yet Lucius cozies up to him, much as Narcissa once got chummy with Colin Creevey after he hurt Draco.

Anonymous @ August 3 2003, 20:28:07 UTC

I really like your interpretation. Do you think Narcissa's angry with Lupin last night? From her reply before leaving the party, I'm uncertain that she's sarcastic or unbelievably ignorant about the whole situation :- her husband flirting with Sirius again and being rudely thrown out of the party by her dear friend and cousin. She acted like it's just an everyday circumstance.

From one of Lupin's comments, he calls Lucius "a piece of filth". In canon, Draco easily loses control when Ron (or Harry?) insults his mother, but for PS, I don't know how he will react or not.

Regarding of Lucius and Sirius' affair, it seems like homosexuality aspect 's disturbed Draco more than infidelity aspect. He's never publicly (or even privately) contronted his father on these issues before. Infidelity is one of the main causes of breakup and divorce which Draco seems to oppose completely. So I don't know what he really thinks

sistermagpie @ August 3 2003, 18:18:00 UTC

Though I'm not ready to assume this is just a case of Sirius being a bad guy hurting Remus and Harry for selfish reasons. I have no idea what he's doing with Lucius, but I'm interested to find out what his pov is because Sirius isn't stupid and he doesn't like hurting Remus or Harry. It's even possible he's got some Order-related reasons for keeping the lines of communication open.

Remus is right on all counts about all the reasons what Sirius is doing is wrong, but I still think he's reacting primarily as a husband rather than a father. Twice now he's reacted to Sirius flirting with Lucius by finding another guy to flirt with (this time he did seem to turn to Snape).

I'm not sure exactly how Harry feels about it--that is, whether he sees Sirius as specifically doing something to hurt him through this and is angry at him on that score. Obviously this isn't something he'd be happy about but I wonder how he would talk to Sirius about it. I mean, Harry's shown he can handle Lucius so I can't see him meekly worrying about showing his feelings about him with Sirius.

Another reason I'm interested in what Sirius is thinking is because of ps--Lupin's other Very Good Reason why he shouldn't be flirting with Lucius. Sirius has just been so incredibly hostile to ps in the past, yet he flirts with Lucius who is actually evil in ways ps isn't. Is Sirius just showing something about human nature there, where we mistakenly think someone like Lucius, who hides his cruelty under a veneer of sophistication, as cool while ps, whose bad qualities are more on display, is considered weak and disgusting? Or is Sirius not just acting out of emotion here?

In general, though, I'm looking forward to seeing some good Remus/Sirius stuff outside of their being a happy family.