Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 02:01:09 UTC

over here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/turpinol/4290.html?thread=19650#t19650), too.

doesn't sound like he talked to seamus. sounds like he wasn't happy that seamus was there.

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 02:17:24 UTC

That's what i was thinking too. I think he kind of felt like his weekend of retreat was being stolen from him. It's a good thing him and Sirius were able to spend some quality time together.

Also, seriously, my love for Lisa is increasing by the minute.

Morgan got a hangnail yesterday, but we're all hoping he'll pull through. Terry is well due to the fact that he continues to have hip bones

This is too funny. The details are great, and are really what makes it all so real.

And aww Harry is concerned about Malfoy! See? I knew they were in love.

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 02:21:58 UTC

Hm. I wonder why he doesn't owl Draco or even ask Millicent. It's weird that he asked Lisa, when he was obviously asking about Draco in the first place. I agree with the people who said something's not write with those two. It seems like Harry's asking because he's worried but can't/won't find out for himself.

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 02:24:45 UTC

Er, RIGHT that is. *smacks self*

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 02:46:57 UTC

that is precisely what I was thinking. Especially since Harry doesn't normally post in Lisa's journal (correct me if I'm wrong). It seemed like maybe his ulterior motive for the contact was to inquire about Draco.

I wanna know what's going on with Harry and Draco. I believe so far we know that: (a)Draco wasn't in Cannes the whole time, (b)Harry cut off this conversation abruptly, and (c)Millicent passed on a message to Draco through him.

From there we get this. Note that Draco didn't post that until 22:34 which leaves him with an entire day unaccounted for. It seems that something happened here between him and Harry. The evidence? Draco's bitterness and attention grabbing "I'm never coming back!" post, and the complete lack of communication between him and Harry since then. *Whines* I wanna know!

black_dog @ June 9 2003, 04:48:24 UTC

(a)Draco wasn't in Cannes the whole time, (b)Harry cut off this conversation abruptly, and (c)Millicent passed on a message to Draco through him.

Oh, that's nice detective work! You think that PS abruptly portkeyed back to school (or to Hogsmeade, for sticklers) in the middle of JH's conversation with MB? That would explain a lot. Plus, if they had a fight, it would explain why PS was too preoccupied to buy MB her silk souffles.

Am totally with you on JH posting in Lisa's journal with the ulterior motive of finding out about Draco. You can make a *shudder* timestamp argument here, too, using only the comments timestamps, not the misleading headers: Harry's first post after his late night back from Italy is in Lisa's journal. She strings him along a bit with a long pause after his 00:42 comment where he asks about "everyone else," so then he makes his own post, hoping to draw comment perhaps from someone else.

What do you make of the chemistry between JH and Turpin? Do they have a past that a latecomer to the game might not know about? I find Lisa oddly charming, with her whole too-cool-for-you persona clashing interestingly with a whimsical streak. The tone between them seems lighter than snark, just playful, with Harry keeping up. Although I read his "a_slytherin" comment as confessing he's baffled by Lisa's last couple of remarks.

I loved your reading that Harry feels cheated out of his retreat by Seamus and Narcissa's presence. But I was still a little surprised, given that they're good friends and both hurting, that he didn't talk about Seamus, and seems not to have talked to him even in passing. I'm not surprised they didn't spend chunks of time together, as Harry was having godfather time with Sirius while Seamus and Remus had been bonding. But you'd expect some friendlier acknowledgment, no? Do you think he's annoyed at Seamus over Malfoy, or has that issue been beaten to death?

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 05:12:46 UTC

You think that PS abruptly portkeyed back to school in the middle of JH's conversation with MB? That would explain a lot. Plus, if they had a fight, it would explain why PS was too preoccupied to buy MB her silk souffles.

Thats pretty much my guess. Seems like he contacted Harry in the middle of the conversation with Millicent. After all, he did kind of check out for a while leaving Millicent and Harry alone to talk. So I think he contacted Harry and then Harry took off to meet up with him. I would guess that they went to Hogsmeade? Millicent mentioned a marketplace.

I can't really comment on the Lisa/Harry backstory since I only discovered NA a week and a half ago myself. But I really like your assessment of her attitude here, made me take a closer look at her. I didn't get the "a_slytherin" comments either, or Lisa's posts before that one.

I hadn't noticed the timestamp bit with Harry's posts tonight, very interesting. Yeah I definitely think he wanted an update on Draco. After all, he was traveling all weekend and wouldn't have heard about it until tonight (last night, now?), and it would make sense for him to turn to Lisa for answers since she had posted about the match. Especially if Harry and Draco had a falling out, he might be avoiding Millicent.

black_dog @ June 9 2003, 20:22:46 UTC

[Sorry if this ends up double-posting, LJ is being strange.]Looking at Anonymous' correction right below, I'm thinking Harry actually posted in three cycles, which makes his concern maybe even more urgent. There's the 23:xx posts on Turpin's journal, where she doesn't give him the info that he obviously wants. Then, according to Harry's own testimony, he reads everybody else's journal to try to get info, but comes back to her an hour later, in effect saying, OK, you pinned me out, but please tell me what happened. And she still doesn't respond right away so he does his own big post (or maybe that happened during the first gap) and she finally relents, indirectly teasing him about his concern for Draco by exaggerating his injuries.

I'm still really intrigued by their dynamic. Why does she make such an issue of his posting in her journal, go out of her way to point out how contrived it is, and tease him about Draco? It's not disdain for him, I don't think, because when they do talk they're playful rather than nasty. I wonder if she has a little unattainable-crush on him, or just wanted to be his friend and found him indifferent. We know from his interactions with Susan Bones that Harry can be oblivious to other people's feelings.

On rereading their final exchanges, my wild grasp at a theory is that she's yet again teasing him about a friendship-that-might-have-been. In the next post, "hate the game, not the player," there might be a rueful acknowledgment of the social constraints, the jumping-through-hoops that Harry has to do to get info about Malfoy. And Harry's "a_slytherin" comment is maybe a tacit acknowledgment that, like "a_slytherin", he sometimes speaks in code, doesn't admit to his entire agenda. Not sure, though. Still, it's interesting to get the best fix possible on this and await further evidence.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 06:44:35 UTC

The timestamp's so confusing. I guess the time on the head of Harry's recent entry is 2 hrs ahead of commenting times.

Personally, I think Harry made his own post first, right after he's back from Italy, before going through others' posts, discovering Quidditch result and other news, then commenting on Lisa's post, asking about Quidditch and stuff. I read his entry just after he posted , then I moved down a page and found his first comment on Lisa's lj(23.38). Yes, after replying his question without mentioning Draco's condition, Harry had to ask her again about "everyone else". It's pretty obvious that she knew what he meant and made him wait from almost an hour. After that they 'd jumped between both posts (Harry's and Lisa's), I don't know why. It seemed like she knew only Draco's still in the hospital and his condition's rather serious. I wonder if Harry really wanted to know, why didn't he ask Millicent directly for an accurate information? I don't think he's mad at her as well.

After Lisa telling him about Draco, he's still playful enough to exchange snarky comments with her for a while. So I'm uncertain that he's truly worried about Draco. A pessimistic part of me kept telling me that he might just want to check whether Draco 'd attend the next Quidditch match against Gryffindor or not.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 07:12:40 UTC

Sorry, I made a mistake. After Lisa replied to Harry's first comment on her lj, He'd waited for almost an hour before commenting again. And also about the timestamp, if it's a mistake as well, sorry in advance.

-anon (06.44)

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 07:51:50 UTC

I'm becoming more and more intrigued (with a little sinking feeling in my stomach though!) about the H/D interaction lately. I'm not ready to point to one reason yet, though. Draco and Harry made a date to meet on Monday evening and we never heard anything about it being either cancelled or kept. It seems like if Draco had unexpectedly portkeyed right to Harry while he was talking to M.B. we'd have seen some evidence of it, wouldn't we? I don't know...it's just that I can see plenty of other things that could cause this other than a literal fight that was happening during that thread we couldn't see.

M.B. herself appears to be keeping after Harry. He's wary of her, it seems to me, but answers her post for post.

The Seamus thing seems like the biggest thing to have happened and we don't know what Harry's response to it is at all. He didn't even respond to Percy's post that specifically called him out for his behavior with Malfoy. Harry could have ignored it because he doesn't want to fight with any Weasley except Ron, or maybe he reacted to it in ways we don't know.

It seems definitely interesting that Harry spent no time with Seamus at DW and says nothing about his feelings of Seamus being there (like that Seamus is his friend but he couldn't spend time with him because he was going to Italy etc). I understand his being annoyed at having his quiet weekend taken away, but still. It seems suspicious that he's on and on about Quidditch in general without directly mentioning the game at school. Not to mention his posting that he hopes Cho's okay without mentioning Draco at all until he literally has to.

It does seem like Harry's withdrawing a bit from both Seamus and Draco but why we don't know. Draco himself has so far not commented in Harry's post about how when Harry was galivanting around Draco was dying--but then, he might still be unconscious.

Harry doesn't necessarily have to think Seamus and Draco spent too much time together to be upset about the whole thing. He could feel that Seamus just interferes in general, for instance. Maybe Seamus tries to direct the H/D relationship too much and Harry feels it's made things worse somehow? Of course, if he did feel Seamus wanted Draco for himself it would add some interesting weight to Seamus' boyfriend post that Harry didn't comment on.

No, I feel like there's definitely something going on with H/D that the two of them are aware of--they seem to both be ignoring each other but Harry is cracking first because of Draco's injury maybe.

imochan @ June 9 2003, 08:29:12 UTC

He could feel that Seamus just interferes in general

ITA. Yes, yes, yes. Remember that it was Seamus who Outed Harry for real, when PS was only "joking around". And why I'm sure Seamus does mean well, he does sort of have a knack for messing around where he's... er... not wanted? Especially where J_H is concerned, seeing that Harry is a character who really does like to be "left alone" in certain respects, but also likes to handle things - especially things that concern him and only him - himself.

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 08:57:28 UTC

Absolutely. Plus Seamus, in his own way, is always very "on" and aware of himself as playing a role--it's probably one reason why he and ps make such funny companions. His post where he officially outed Harry was so dramatic and almost like a prepared statement. His posts to Dean about not crawling back when he needed him did make it clear that Seamus really did see himself as taking care of Dean a lot. I don't dislike him for any of these things--I still love him as a character. I just don't know how well I'd handle him as a friend. I feel like it's more likely his personality that M.B. dislikes about him rather than some actual grievance.

There's a lot of ways Harry could feel Seamus has stepped in and orchestrated things. The new clothing for example. Seamus talks to ps and gets his thoughts on Harry's clothes. Harry does want to buy new clothes to look attractive for ps. But I admit I was pretty surprised to see Seamus posting pictures of it all in his journal. It was like the worst thing to do. Harry probably wanted to slip the things subtly into his wardrobe like it was no big deal, but Seamus posts it and gets exactly the wrong reaction from ps: Why is Potter buying new clothes? ps even ends up deflating Harry's possible hopes for the clothes by saying it doesn't look good, it "just looks like Potter's bought new clothes." I'd bet that's exactly what Harry didn't want it to look like. We've never heard anything about the clothes besides that--wouldn't be surprised if Harry's barely worn them he's so self-conscious now. They became more about Seamus (and Ron and Draco--poor Harry!) than about himself.

Edited to add missing words!

sheron @ June 9 2003, 09:05:41 UTC

But S is for Seamus, who is a better friend to Harry than most think.

Also, I love the point about the clothes.

They became more about Seamus (and Ron and Draco--poor Harry!) than about himself.

Exactly.

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 09:42:01 UTC

Wow! Thanks!

Am about to go read that a heck of a lot more carefully...

Though to be clear just because it's all about me me me--I do think Seamus has very good intentions, particularly towards Harry when it comes to Draco. Those are the things that keep getting him into trouble!

So happy for this link. Hurray!!!

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 09:53:32 UTC

Ah! So now I'm understanding why everybody was saying Draco wasn't in Cannes...it would be because he wasn't in Cannes. Teach me to make sure I click on all links to be up to speed.

So now I need to revise--yeah, it definitely seems like something could have happened then, after Harry's conversation with M.B. finished. So they weren't fighting during the thread but right afterwards, and Draco's "I'm staying in Cannes" post was in response to that.

My question now is whether Ron knows what happened that night. He called Malfoy a coward for saying he's not coming home. Wonder if there's a specific reason why.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 10:57:14 UTC

I don't think that Seamus has to be a bad friend for Harry to feel threatened by him. Think about the way Seamus and Draco have been acting lately, Seamus in particular. They've made paper dolls. They've had a tea party. Harry wasn't along for either of those outings. They exchange comments, and Draco even sent Seamus an owl from Cannes. And Seamus makes that post about how Draco is not his boyfriend, wherein he describes how Draco smells. I don't really think that Seamus has any bad intentions; I think that's just how Seamus is. But if I were Harry, I would be uncomfortable and unhappy and uncertain about all of it. I don't think that I would be secure enough to tell myself, "That's just how Seamus is."

We've seen it happen plenty of times where fallings-out at NA are based on perceptions and not upon facts, and I suspect that this might be one of those times. I might be reading too much into it, because I've been expecting something like that ever since Seamus posted about Acqua di Gio. Harry seems to be a pretty level-headed kid, but I don't know if anyone is that level-headed.

sheron @ June 9 2003, 11:03:36 UTC Re:

The "most" in "better friend to Harry then most think" could very well refer to Harry himself. I don't think Harry is that level-headed either. From the post in his journal it seems obvious he is at the very least uncomfortable with Seamus intruding on his life.

However, that doesn't mean Seamus actually isn't a good friend to him, in his own way. Thus my linking to the comment. You said it: " that's just how Seamus is." It may take most people a while to see it though, I bet.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 11:05:43 UTC

For me, it's when Seamus mentioned Draco's delicate skin and a blanket.

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 09:48:32 UTC Musings

I completely agree with sistermagpie and imochan in regards to Seamus. Harry is almost always the paradigm of the supportive, considerate friend; he is never offensive, almost always willing to compromise, etc. He is a sincerely nice person, and continues to be so even when niceties are not warranted by the other parties involved. (Example: Harry’s interactions with members of Hufflepuff House in both the books and in NA. Because, you know, I like to think that I’m a pretty easygoing and forgiving person, but, damn—if I were him, there would have been a smack-down back in 2nd year.) It sometimes gets to the point where I feel he’s less of a boy and more of a doormat. (Though we have seen that he is also able to stand up for himself when he has to. #loffs her brave little soldier-who-could#) So, anyway, he didn’t get upset at Seamus when the other boy inadvertently let it out that he was gay; he didn’t get defensive when Seamus invaded his private friendship with the Slytherins; all in all, he’s been very agreeable about the whole affair. But then, when he was finally going to have the relaxing, intimate, private bonding weekend with Remus and Sirius that he’d been looking forward to, what happens? Seamus and Mrs. Malfoy come running with tales of their own troubles and dominate Remus’s time and attention while Harry and Sirius make the best of the situation by continuing as best they can. And I know it’s unreasonable, unwarranted, and unfair to berate either Seamus or Narcissa for seeking comfort and advice from Lupin in their times of distress, but, then again, we can also not hold it against Harry if he harbors a bit of resentment because of their intrusion. And we certainly cannot question it if Harry decides to quietly give Seamus the cold-shoulder—or, more accurately, very little regard at all. Why should he have to spend his much-needed and much-deserved weekend of leisure and comfort fretting over his friend’s love life, really? (I myself would have pitched a fit and generally made everybody very miserable in the same situation. But then again, I am spoiled and bratty. ^_~) I say good for Harry for not letting himself be once again drawn into other people’s tragedies. He and Sirius managed to salvage their weekend, and I’m very glad for that, because Harry really does deserve the childhood he never had with the Dursleys; or, barring that, a bit of fun with the parent figures he’s just barely beginning to know. He shouldn’t be denied that just because Narcissa is being melodramatic and Seamus is having relationship issues.

imochan @ June 9 2003, 10:09:51 UTC Re: Musings

*claps* Very true! Like Sistermagpie said - and in light of the intern_alley non-post ;D - none of us are saying that Seamus is a bad friend to Harry, or that he's doing these things on purpose, just that he's a prime example of the sort of people who are intelligent and perceptive where relationships are concerned, but sometimes let their mad ppl sk1llz go to their heads. You know, it's sort of like prepubescent match-making: passing notes for friends without them knowing Psssst! Harry likes you... and we all know how well that tends to work out. >:D< I really do think, though, that Seamus's actions shouldn't go without praise, because he meant well and I think it's more a case of him not adjusting his usual tactics (which may have worked well in the past) to fit Harry's personality and situation, than anything else.

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 10:28:28 UTC Re: Musings

Yes, exactly! #huggles you for being so perceptive and lucid# He was trying to help, but, much like Ron, went about it in entirely the wrong way. (Oh, how I loff them in all their well-meaning cluelessness! #adores#) I hope I didn’t seem too harsh on Seamus and Narcissa in my last post, because, while I love their characters, I was adopting Harry’s standpoint in the matter to prove my point. (Now, what that point was, I cannot say. Because I am scatterbrained and have forgotten what my original intent was in light of my Harry-love. #molests# ^_~)

sheron @ June 9 2003, 11:11:03 UTC Re: Musings

I agree. I love Harry who isn't always a doormat about things.

And we certainly cannot question it if Harry decides to quietly give Seamus the cold-shoulder—or, more accurately, very little regard at all. .... He shouldn’t be denied that just because Narcissa is being melodramatic and Seamus is having relationship issues.

Little regard sounds about right. I don't think he's at the point where he would roast marshmallows on their heads. :D

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 11:54:34 UTC Re: Musings

Yay! It makes me very happy when people reply to my t00by posts because they make me fancy myself quite the philosopher and prance about happily thinking I can do no wrong. ^_~ So, thanks! #huggles you (yes, I am a huggle-whore; the shame! #weeps#)# Also, you are very succinct. I envy you this, because I am long-winded and ramble-y (<-- it’s a word if I say it’s a word, no? ^-^). Also, kudos on the Harry-love; if I could think up a cool motto for a Harry club (which sounds v. funny, don’t you think?), I would put it here, but, alas. I cannot. #looks around for someone to fob the responsibility off to# ^_^ Bye!
—Miranda

sheron @ June 9 2003, 12:19:21 UTC Re: Musings

I have never been called succinct before. Always rambly. (i prefer this spelling).
*tries 'succinct' on for size*, *likes how it fits* ^_^

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 12:33:55 UTC Re: Musings

Yes, I like that spelling better as well--that's actually how I had it spelled before, but I changed it in a fit of foolishness, as I had my reply in Microsoft Word and spell check was grumbling. Also, I see no reason why a person may not alternately be rambly and succinct; it all depends on which voice in your head you're listening to, I say. #mutters softly to self; the sentences "No, Draco; if I've told you once I've told you a million times, stop calling me a silly little muggle. No, really," are distinctly heard.# ^_~
Bye!
--Miranda

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 15:58:47 UTC Re: Musings

Your icon is so cute!

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 16:11:44 UTC Re: Musings

Thank you! #loffs you very much, because you are nice and also have a very pretty icon# I got the picture from this site and proceeded to ruin it with that pun. #is rueful# ^_^
--Miranda

sheron @ June 9 2003, 08:36:55 UTC

Especially since Harry doesn't normally post in Lisa's journal (correct me if I'm wrong).

Oh no, I think you're right. And I think Lisa calls him on it, with her sarcastic, "I am glad we have become such close friends that you are checking in with me in your absence. If I had known I would have sent postcards."

kat99999 @ June 9 2003, 02:19:38 UTC

Ty for thisss, I woulda missed it otherwise!

kat99999 @ June 9 2003, 02:18:15 UTC

I thought I would get lots of revision done this weekend but in the end I didn't get any done at all.

Me and just_harry finally have something in common! I can totally relate to this.

And aww, I love Snarky!Harry. Always welcome! :-D

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 04:57:53 UTC

What's the reference behind "H-Po"?

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 05:03:04 UTC

Jennifer Lopez's nickname is J-Lo *pauses* I wonder if there's a wizard musician equivalent to her. That's what I read the H-Po comment to be referring to, a bit of pop culture.

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 10:14:35 UTC Oh! #slaps self#

...I live in America. I should have gotten that one. But I didn't.
So, thank you for explaining. ^_^
But now I must go off and wallow in my shame.
...
#wallows#
^_~

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 10:27:19 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Even if there was a Wizard Equivalent to Jennifer Lopez the reference is ananchronistic.

I really wish they wouldn't do that. Is it worth the 30 seconds of giggling to weaken a player's integrity?

neveth @ June 9 2003, 10:44:17 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I saw it more as a refrencing to name-shortening (I didn't get the j-lo thing either)

Who knows? I prefer TBWL though.

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 10:52:19 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I really don't see how it weakens the integrity of the character; personally, I think Lisa's musical allusions are a welcome and entertaining addition to the game much-appreciated by various nragers and other NA fans. It's meant to be taken lightly; if we were to be so nitpicky as to abhor all things even mildly anachronistic to HP, we'd have to hunt down relatively archaic PC programs for players to use, ban references to websites or other things created after 1997, etc, and even persecute JK herself for her creation of "The Weird Sisters" (a reference to the evil witches of Macbeth, which was written by Shakespeare hundreds of hears ago and thus is also chronologically unacceptable).

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 11:02:55 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

if we were to be so nitpicky as to abhor all things even mildly anachronistic to HP, we'd have to hunt down relatively archaic PC programs for players to use, ban references to websites or other things created after 1997, etc,

Not necessarily. There's a balance between what is possible even for the most dedicated player and what is an acceptable amount of forgiveness for things out of their control (Like internet advancements since 1996).

And perhaps you don't care, but the fact that I do care should not make opinion matter less.

even persecute JK herself for her creation of "The Weird Sisters" (a reference to the evil witches of Macbeth, which was written by Shakespeare hundreds of hears ago and thus is also chronologically unacceptable).

Because . . . no one . . . read Shakespeare in 1991?

You completely lost me there.

kiss_me_again @ June 9 2003, 11:29:27 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

There's a balance between what is possible even for the most dedicated player and what is an acceptable amount of forgiveness for things out of their control
I concede.
And perhaps you don't care, but the fact that I do care should not make opinion matter less.
I’m sorry if I made you feel that your opinion did not matter. That was not my intent, nor is it true. =o( [<--apologetic] I simply wanted to state that, while I acknowledged and respected your opinion on the matter, other people had equally respectable outlooks on the subject contrary to yours; again, I’m sorry if I offended you. I didn’t mean to be rude, and I’m sorry if I came off that way.
Because . . . no one . . . read Shakespeare in 1991? You completely lost me there.
Oops—perhaps I should have stated that better. I knew I should have left that argument out. ^_~ Okay, let me try and explain what I was attempting to enunciate (warning: it may be even more confusing. I have a very unstable mind =o). See, your complaint was that the allusions were anachronistic and therefore damaging to the game. Now I, good little Hermione wannabe that I am, went and looked that up right away. On discovery that an anachronism is “One that is out of its proper or chronological order, especially a person or practice that belongs to an earlier time,” I promptly went about creating my little argument, the last point of which included The Weird Sisters reference. Now, I know that you were talking about a time inconsistency involving the scenario whereby the musical artists references preceded their real-time popularity, but I brought up a counter-argument whereby the factors had been switched around (an anachronism related to the past, instead of the future). Did that make sense?—Because I kind of lost myself a few times there. ^_^;; Anyway, I hope that’s cleared some things up. Bye!
—Miranda

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 13:59:18 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

You've cleared things up nicely. I'm in agreement that a little leeway is fine. I just get annoyed at blatent pop culture references that distract from the game, especially when the players go out of their way to make them. Those players lose integrity in my eyes. And it's just a personal preference.

And thank you for treating my opinion like it matters, which is more than I can say for some NA players.

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 14:11:55 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

And thank you for treating my opinion like it matters, which is more than I can say for some NA players.

Hm I dunno, it could just be me, but if someone said I lost integrity for having some fun in my own RPG that I am playing for myself and not to please the fans, I would be offended and not treat such opinions seriously. Just my 2 cents. ^_^

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:29:21 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Two cents better spent elsewhere.

Let's not get started on NA/Nraged self indulgence, shall we?

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 14:32:54 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

But NA didn't create Nraged...

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:44:10 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Whatever gave you that idea?

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 14:46:13 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Because it is the truth? It was explained during the chat as well...

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:58:09 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I'd like to read that chat sometime.

Funny. I don't remember it happening that way . . .

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 15:03:37 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Me too, I'd love to have a copy of the chat, it was fun. But it was pretty chaotic because of Y!M so the logging got messed up. Hopefully somebody managed to keep a copy of it.

How did you remember it happening?

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 15:12:26 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Wonsaponatime, there was NA, and it was good. Many people liked NA, but there was no place for them to talk about it. The NA players were concerned, and so were NA fans who were friends with NA players. And that was why Nraged was created.

Or so I thought. It was always a collaborative effort on the part of both the fans and the players to make a community where they could come together and interact, and I loved the concept of it and was proud to be a part of it.

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 15:21:38 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Oh, it was sort of like that... A lot of people were posting about NA on your own journals and people who were not interested in NA were getting irritated, or something, I'm not entirely sure there, but it seems to be a problem.. So.. the mod of Nraged, VanityFair, created Nraged without telling the NA players beforehand since it is a fan community for the fans after all. The NA players weren't informed of it but I guess everything worked itself out well in the end... That was what was said at the chat, that's why I was wondering why you said what you said about the NA/Nraged indulgence...

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 15:25:48 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

The NA/Nraged self-indulgence is another topic entirely.

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 15:28:35 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Well then I guess we shouldn't go into that here.. I like Nraged and I love NA and this is not the forum to voice my issues with either community even if I had any, so I will take my leave. ^_^

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 15:34:51 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I'm in full agreement that this is not the forum to discuss that topic, and I had no plans to.

bookshop @ June 9 2003, 18:19:28 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

NA did not create Nraged. I created Nraged. No one else in NA had anything to do with it, or indeed even knew about it before I did it. And even if they had, the decisions I make do not automatically represent an entire roleplay with many players, of which I am only a small part. Please do not confuse the two.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 10:59:41 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Wow. Duuuuuuuuuuude. Chill out.

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 11:04:55 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Because noticing an obvious anachronism like that must mean that I'm taking this game way too seriously.

It can't mean that I like, noticed it and simply was annoyed.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 11:14:10 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

It meant that you noticed it and were annoyed enough to compose a comment about the damaged "integrity of the game," which, I'm sorry, but man, is that taking it too seriously. It's just an rpg. I think that NA will manage to carry on unbowed even under the crippling weight of Lisa's infamous H-Po comment.

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:05:31 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Thank you for reminding me why I dislike 90% of the people on here.

Only in Nraged can you find people who are encouraged to overanalyse to death but discouraged to post even a minor criticism.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 14:13:48 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I love how you managed to insults the players AND the fans and STILL read the RPG AND nraged!

Also, LJ did not exist in 1997.

-Pam-

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:26:55 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

No, I really didn't insult anyone in particular. I just commented on a trend. Yes, I read NA and Nraged. Why wouldn't I?

And last, duh? See previous discussion on acceptable limits.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 14:34:35 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

You just said you dislike 90% of the people here and that the NA players treat you badly and they have no integrity!

((Why wouldn't I?))

Because you seem to hate everything here?

-Pam-

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 14:42:40 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I said that consciously anachronistic posts lowers my esteem of NA players. On the whole I admire them much for what they do on NA.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 16:18:41 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Thank you. You have made your opinion clear here and in many other forums. As you put it, this is two cents best spent elsewhere, and I am going to have to ask you to refrain from such comments in the future.

bookshop @ June 9 2003, 18:11:51 UTC ADMIN Re: Oh! #slaps self#

Katie.

I'm going to quote from a recent post made to another member of NA, as it applies to you as well.

Insulting or degrading the players, even in jest, is not acceptable behavior on this forum.

And, while I'm on the subject, neither is insulting the other members of Nraged, or implying that you know better, that you are in some way smarter or more observant. Implying that their hypothesis or theory about a situation is somehow wrong, misguided, or just plain dumb is also grounds for incurring my wrath.

...

If you can't treat the game, and the players, and the other fans around you, with the level of respect worthy of the obsessiveness you seem to have for NA and Nraged, then you should seriously rethink said level of obsessiveness, until you can learn to play nicely and be more considerate of other people's feelings.

Katie, I strongly advise you to take this post to heart before you post here again.

metaphoracle @ June 9 2003, 18:50:25 UTC Re: ADMIN

Duly noted.

Don't call me Katie.

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 18:14:06 UTC Re: Oh! #slaps self#

I didn't catch the J-Lo comment at all (I was just kind of confused, actually!) but isn't the dichotomy of the RPG and the fantasy world a valid topic for fan discussion? I took "integrity" here to refer not to anybody's moral code but the soundness of the premise and the fantasy world.

I just know I can get really sensitive about stuff like this too when I see it in movies or TV shows or things like that. I was freaked by the NA Buffy thread a while back but a lot of fans consider it one of their favorite NA threads so, you know, to each his own. I tend to be really really conservative about where the line is. It's just our own personal ways we watch the game (or play it--the players probably have different styles too).

imochan @ June 9 2003, 13:17:07 UTC

Squee! Harry!

Pointless post for the day... check.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 13:23:09 UTC

Go Harry! ..his love is so understated.. :D

sheron @ June 9 2003, 13:45:45 UTC

*lol* Ron is hilarious. "he was sleeping most of the time anyway" Yeah, he was unconscious.

But really it's an awfully long time to be at the hospital. Unless PS is having one of those moments where he is on his death-bed from a blister. :D

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 14:10:51 UTC

I'm so loving Harry here, calling Neville on his words: You're happy someone smashed a kneecap? He doesn't seem to be able to just show concern for Draco directly but he's doing his best. I wonder if M.B.'s thing about Draco not saying hello is some comment on the two of them being ridiculous with each other. Meanwhile Harry's all, "Gee, that seems a long time to still be in hospital....anybody want to give me some details so I don't have to beg?"

I'm loving the fallout of the Quidditch match in general. I feel badly for Cho having to deal with a houseful of angry Quidditch fanatics but it's verrrry interesting to hear different perspectives on the game, many of them basically objective. Love how Ron immediately says Malfoy cheated and knocked Cho off her broom, but according to Cho, Lisa and Susan Draco just got hit, spun out and accidentally knocked into her.

Anyway, it appears Draco did not knock Cho off her broom on purpose. He really did just get badly hurt in a Quidditch game and catch the Snitch. Maybe it's just because knees are so sensitive but OUUUUUCCCCH! for poor Draco, even more than Cho--kneecaps seem more painful than arms and much harder to heal. I could just see the poor kid turning white when Crabbe dropped his books on his knee.

And Draco didn't want to talk? Geez. That must have been some bludger!:-(

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 15:55:48 UTC

I'm totally appalled with Neville saying that. The poor kid is still in the hospital wing and Neville's cheering about it.

black_dog @ June 9 2003, 20:30:02 UTC

OK, this may be wild over-reading here but we're so starved for evidence I can't resist. I think Harry's obvious, and increasingly public concern for Malfoy is evidence that he'd like to go visit him in the hospital wing, but somehow feels he can't. This would be important if we're trying to decide between Harry-is-pissed-at-PS-because-of-Seamus on the one hand, and PS-has-had-another-fit-and-told-Harry-off, on the other. It makes it feel more like, whatever happened in the fight, PS pushed Harry away, rather than vice-versa, and Harry feels PS still wouldn't want to see him.

I love the idea of MB appealing to Harry's Gryffindor honor to spare her an ulcer. The suggestion is, maybe, that Harry would have to swallow his pride to come see PS -- more evidence that he'd be risking a further rejection from PS? She seems to be implying to Harry that Draco is being especially childish, and asking Harry to be the grown-up one and make the first move.

Although this leaves us no closer to having any idea what they quarreled about in the first place . . .

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 20:45:01 UTC

OK, this may be wild over-reading here but we're so starved for evidence I can't resist. I think Harry's obvious, and increasingly public concern for Malfoy is evidence that he'd like to go visit him in the hospital wing, but somehow feels he can't. This would be important if we're trying to decide between Harry-is-pissed-at-PS-because-of-Seamus on the one hand, and PS-has-had-another-fit-and-told-Harry-off, on the other. It makes it feel more like, whatever happened in the fight, PS pushed Harry away, rather than vice-versa, and Harry feels PS still wouldn't want to see him.

!!

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 21:04:28 UTC

Brilliant analysis! And you got a gold star for it. w00t!

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 21:18:22 UTC

Well, you got a gold star but even if you hadn't I'd have said--right-o!!!!:-)

I mean, if the two of them have a fight it's usually Draco's doing. I loved the way M.B. not only told Harry, "You know you're miserable without the little ferret," but let him know that Draco too was making himself miserable as well. It seems like Harry made a very concerted effort to leave this weekend, possibly in direct response to Draco. He didn't check in with the journals. Then he starts literally dancing around trying to get info about Draco--I loved his "I can't tell what really happened at the game" from people's journals. He probably logged in hoping to read ps' description and got more and more worried when he heard references to an accident and blood and ps still wasn't posting. He's also making a point of filling up his summer with Ron-time--I wonder if that's also some kind of message to Draco. I don't know what kind, though, whether he's doing what Draco says he wants or defiantly getting closer to Ron. He definitely knew what M.B. was getting at, though, with his, "Nothing now!"

I really think he needs to just slip down there in his Invisiblity cloak in the middle of the night. What's Draco gonna do, run away from him? It's perfect!

As to what they quarreled about, well, that's difficult. It would have been pre-tea-party so Draco doesn't appear to have decided to cut off all Gryffindor contact. Remember this is a kid who flew off the handle at Harry saying he was unreliable so it could be anything--maybe Harry told him he and Ron once went to Hogsmeade and Draco told him to just be that way and go to Hogsmeade with Ron. Or to be a little more hopeful, maybe in a roundabout way they talked about death. Draco had just been staring at a corpse, after all.

In other news, Terry's comment on the Quidditch game was absolutely priceless. Go Terry.

sheron @ June 9 2003, 21:31:53 UTC

Well about filling up his summer with Ron... they're friends, aren't they? Why wouldn't Harry want to spend time together? It doesn't have to be about Draco. (Despite what we all might want :)

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 21:40:39 UTC

Oh oh! Yes, absolutely. You're right, that totally sounds like Ron is just a stand-in for Draco.

I just mean that he's posting about it a lot, specifically, even saying that they could spend the whole summer together, each half at one another's houses. I think no matter what Harry would want to spend time with Ron, but I wondered if he was posting about it a lot because this was a "safe" topic. It could just be that summer's coming, but we know the Malfoys usually go on vacation and Draco isn't yet sure where he's going yet. When that came up it seemed like Harry would want to keep some options open in case they met up, so literally trying to get his whole summer sewed up with Ron seemed a little much to me.

black_dog @ June 10 2003, 12:39:51 UTC

I just mean that he's posting about it a lot

Even without regard to what he's posting about, it's interesting because Harry so rarely posts twice in a week -- I think that usually happens when something's weighing on him, or just the opposite, when he's unusually happy, and I think we have one of each here.

I agree with you in wondering whether his comments are in any way directed at Draco. By locking up his summer with Ron, he could be retreating into a safe relationship, or he could be trying to coax a comment out of Draco. If Draco really pushed him away, this could be JH saying "here's your last chance to get together over the summer."

The post about his travels with Sirius could be exactly what it seems, but I sensed a little bit of posing for Draco here, too. If I remember correctly, Harry has rarely if ever been out of the country. But here he is zipping from France to Italy to Switzerland in a weekend. His casual stop by Geneva for a box of chocolates in particular has a bit of a swagger to it, a reminder to anyone interested that he, too, has money and gets around.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 13:24:14 UTC

I must say I'm loving it that Harry found EuroDisney to be awful and the popcorn disgusting. XD XD XD

And Millicent is continuing to check in with him. (Dunno if this was mentioned yet ot not..?)

imochan @ June 9 2003, 13:38:51 UTC

Wouldn't it be great if it actually went something like this?

M.B.: Potter's back.
PS (drug-induced state): Oh. Hello, Potter.
M.B.: *types*
PS: No. Wait! No Hello! Hello-free!
M.B.: *shrugs, types*

:D :D I can dream.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 13:53:52 UTC

No. Wait! No Hello! Hello-free!

Luuurve it! XD

shusu @ June 9 2003, 14:36:23 UTC

Where's Barbarino?

lunastarr @ June 9 2003, 15:54:49 UTC

LOL!

anjaliesque @ June 10 2003, 18:19:39 UTC

<3!

Anonymous @ June 10 2003, 13:25:29 UTC

I must say I'm loving it that Harry found EuroDisney to be awful and the popcorn disgusting. XD XD XD


Snerk:
It's in France. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/just_harry/8045.html?thread=160365#t160365)

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 17:03:54 UTC

Harry replied to M.B. now. And look she agrees with us, he is angsty, I wonder if he'll admit to it now.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 18:23:24 UTC

I love how she referred to Draco as The Angst up in the hospital wing! XD

And she's clearly getting fed up with the two of them. Hopefully, she will put them to rights again.

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 18:27:50 UTC

a big ol' word to that.

Millicent, we neeeeeed you!

sistermagpie @ June 9 2003, 18:28:29 UTC

**snicker snicker**

Hear him moping all the way across the school. And Harry's little "Nothing now!" It's more passion that I think I've ever seen in one of his posts except for the ones with Lucius. Draco is so good for him. Harry, just sling on the invisibility cape and head down to the infirmary why don't you?

tabiji @ June 9 2003, 22:34:25 UTC Puzzle pieces...

I'm racking my brains to try and put the pieces together, and I'm baffled. There's no evidence of any one big thing, but a bunch of little things. This is the most sense I can make out of all of it - then again we may be missing big yet-to-be-posted clues.

Draco and Harry were all cute and flirty in Result of The Match, (a heading which I think had little to do with Millicent and Draco's Literati game, and everything to do with M.B.'s matchmaking). They made a date for Monday, but then it seemed to go downhill with Draco's beautifully enraged not responding to my email, where it seems that Draco is resentful that Harry and M.B. are chatting and chummy when mourning!Draco should be getting more attention and comforting. Draco flooed/portkeyed to Harry that night, and something went a bit wrong. Maybe it was as little as Draco being upset that Harry was paying too much attention to his friends, maybe as big as Harry pressuring him to go public with their relationship - or maybe both, (I can see Draco expecting comfort and support, and Harry, tired of the facade, saying something like, "Gee, isn't that what your girlfriend is for?") It doesn't appear to get resolved, and after this Harry seems to avoid posting directly to Draco or Millicent, even after Draco gets injured. Draco shows resentment toward M.B.w/ Harry again here.

Draco posted more than once that he may stay in Cannes. Harry doesn't respond, so this is probably post- or mid-fight, and Draco expected Harry to reply to stop him. Ron replied that Draco is being a coward by running away. I wonder if maybe Ron has some inside information from M.B.'s email about Draco's feelings about Harry?

Draco did come back, and Monday Crabbe posted that Draco wasn't around and Sirius posted that he hasn't seen Harry. Individual solitary sulking? Or maybe they kept their date after all, and quality time was spent at Draco's hole? *snicker*

Harry's distraction on Wednesday could be that by making plans with Seamus, Draco was doing the exact thing he'd been upset at Harry for - spending time they could be together with one of Harry's friends - but with the added bonus that Seamus is gay and appears to be a bit fascinated with Draco. Since Harry and Draco haven't seemed to have defined their relationship, and Draco hasn't acknowledged publicly that there's anything between them, I have to think that Harry could be concerned that he is just a flirtation/experimentation to Draco and not something serious, especially since Draco is maintaining that he's still with Pansy. Harry may feel that just as it seemed he was getting somewhere with Draco, Seamus came along and caught Draco's attention, emphasizing to Harry that Draco isn't technically his to be jealous of.


*unrelated but amusing: the topic on Jerry Springer right now is "Enraged Lovers"*

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 23:16:27 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I'm wondering if it was a fight at all. Crabbe drops the hint that Draco was acting quiet, which is odd for Draco, especially an injured Draco at that. And Harry seems like he's very subdued. I'm not sure if they'd both be acting sullen due to a fight. At least, not Draco, especially if he was the one who got mad. He's given Harry the cold shoulder before, yeah, but why would he be quiet and glum around Crabbe and Goyle?

Maybe Draco freaked out. I mean, this is the kid who was physically ill at the thought of Harry kissing him a little over a month ago. But if something did freak him out, the question is what or why or how.

Anonymous @ June 9 2003, 23:28:25 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

But if something did freak him out, the question is what or why or how.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 23:40:58 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Ahh.. I get you. You know, Harry's behavior reminds me of the way he acted when he thought Sirius and Remus wanted children (during the wedding reception fiasco). Sort of rejected. Didn't he get all glum and subdued then too? And wanted to go home, etc.

So, basically, what we have is that 'something' happened that freaked Draco out and Harry was left feeling rejected. Make sense?

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 23:52:40 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I agree.

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 23:45:21 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Hmmmm you got a whole row of stars here. So now we've got a real puzzle on our hands. What made Draco freak out? His encounter with Harry, his feelings for him?

black_dog @ June 10 2003, 00:52:49 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Just running through the various possibilities -- some, admittedly, a bit extravagant -- for what might have freaked Draco out:

I suppose that, just to be complete, we should consider whether anything in Percy's post might have set Draco off. If Draco came back surreptitiously to Hogsmeade at about 01:00 on June 1, and announced he was going to stay in Cannes at about 23:00 on June 1, the Percy thread is the only obvious, public thing that happened in between.

I'm not arguing for this -- in fact I don't see anything in the Percy thread that would have provoked Draco's reaction, but I wonder if anyone else does. Percy was very discreet in the way he characterized Harry and Draco's relationship, and Seamus was the same, I think.

Another possibility is that things happened in two stages. Whatever happened Saturday night/Sunday morning (the 31st/1st) disturbed Draco and made him think about hiding at Cannes. I assume his father shot that down and he was back on the 2nd as planned. Meanwhile Seamus was arranging the tea party. Now I'm even wondering if Seamus was making a move on Harry's behalf. (So much for a week of posts critical of Seamus. Do I contradict myself? I contain multitudes!).

Harry doesn't actually post something glum until the 6th, in which he alludes to being "distracted" the night of Wednesday the 4th. Was there an awkwardness Saturday/Sunday, and an attempt to patch it over that led to a more definitive failure?

Still no idea what actually happened. Though I thought about what Draco said in his delirium, because, what the hell, why else would it be quoted? 1) We have him feeling "misery" -- he sounds emotionally upset, he wants to be left alone, which is not his usual response to a spectacular injury. 2) We have "Thanks ever so for the touching concern. Touch his and hate." Which I suppose could be interpreted as something sexual if we are sufficiently imaginative. And 3) we have "Turn out the fire. Draco Malfoy's foot burns." Why fire? Why burns? Maybe from Narcissa's firetalk, but there's no fun in that. An allusion to his sunburn in Cannes?

I would love to believe that a little session with aloe got out of hand the night of June first. Any takers?

tabiji @ June 10 2003, 01:26:53 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I would love to believe that a little session with aloe got out of hand the night of June first.

I forgot all about that! That's an excellent theory. I was thinking along the lines of Harry consoling Draco for the loss of his Grandmother...a hug that got out of hand...

The thing with that is, I really thought that they had progressed to a point at least a little a bit beyond that. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but at the time someone posted about how after someone dies people tend to turn to sex as a form of reaffirming that they're still alive. Now I wonder if that's along the lines of what happened, because it would certainly give Draco reason to freak.

black_dog @ June 10 2003, 02:32:54 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

after someone dies people tend to turn to sex as a form of reaffirming that they're still alive

Yeah, I was making that argument at the time, although some others might have been as well. And we know from Lucius' recent "what a week" post that Draco was really, really obsessed with his grandmother's body.

I went and reread the whole Literati thread, and a couple of things jumped out. Draco is giddy and playful, as we all acknowledge. He also talks several times about how bored and neglected(lonely?) he's feeling at Cannes. And there's that odd exchange between Harry and Draco right before he disappears for a while, only to come back briefly, complaining that no one is answering his email, and then apparently portkey back to Hogwarts. They tell some lame jokes, and Draco says they're the best jokes he's heard in five minutes, and Harry say's he's had a bad five minutes then, and Draco says it's actually been pretty good, and Harry uses a special icon and says "good."

So they've had a moment, and Draco comes maybe as close as he's ever done to saying he's been hurting and Harry is making him happy, and shortly thereafter he rushes off, really quite extravagantly, to Harry's side.

I go back and forth on how far along they were before this, or what the water stain at Dogear was about, etc, etc. But more and more this really feels like an important thing -- Draco running, hundreds of miles, to Harry at a moment of emotional need. Even if they've done physical stuff before (and I'm very uncertain about that) I can definitely see something serious happening between them that night, at Draco's initiative, or at least with Draco making it clear that the barriers are down. And then, of course, he freaks later, and they fight about it maybe that Wednesday.

Might work, might work!

tabiji @ June 10 2003, 02:54:18 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

or what the water stain at Dogear was about, etc, etc

My theory on the waterstain was that they were goofing around chasing the Snitch, and that there was some sort of collision/wrestling between the two of them, and during the struggle they knocked over a glass of water and crumpled the Astronomy Project. I was wondering if there was also some sort of serious Body Contact because immediately afterward Harry seemed to shy away (he didn't initiate any posts, and his replies were tentative, as if he was feeling awkward and not knowing how Draco would react), and Draco started posting about having difficulty sleeping, (which would make total sense if he had enjoyed that accidental body contact).

theantimodel @ June 10 2003, 14:15:13 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Anyone have a link to this particular incident? I can't remember it.

tabiji @ June 11 2003, 00:04:13 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

These are all from around the time of the Astronomy Project (the week of 16May)
Removing a water stain
Missing Snitch.
Retreived Snitch
Crumpled & smashed project

Anonymous @ June 10 2003, 15:13:32 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

This may have been suggested already, but here I go anyway...

Maybe the recent DE attacks spurned an argument about the war? If Draco did give any on his side/acknowlegde he is wrong, I think that would make Harry very upset/sullen like he has been. And, if Harry said some things (about Draco's parents perhaps?) to try to get Draco to change his mind, Draco might freak out and not want to talk to him.

And perhaps, in light of Narcissa's post about her parentage, Draco feels like he lost a part of the argument (assuming he argued the old purebloods are better thing) and is upset about that, staying away from Harry incase he gives him an "I told you so" speech. And perhaps Harry's staying away from Draco because he knows Draco's likely to be pissed about it?

Now I'm shooting in the dark, but whatever.

tabiji @ June 9 2003, 23:53:25 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Well now I'm even more confused. I had taken Draco's giddiness and playfulness during the "Result of the Match" thread to mean that he was happy that Millicent had played matchmaker, and that the secret meetings in Draco's hideout meant that things had been progressing between the two of them.

I figured Draco was past the phobic thing, especially since he posted recently about Pansy being suitable as she's a Pureblood, but Seamus wasn't, (not because he's male), but because he's a Half-blood.

fourscore @ June 9 2003, 23:59:54 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

No, that's not what I meant. What I mean is that if someone who is gay was previously homophobic, they're not going to really be prepared to leap full throttle into a relationship. It's really likely that they would get freaked out by things just when they were comfortable. Like there are homophobes who will be perfectly willing to accept handjobs from friends, but then if said friend came they might get freaked out. Things like that. And that's not what I think happened here, because Harry would probably be pretty pissed off if it were something like that, but that's just an example.

tabiji @ June 10 2003, 00:09:21 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Yea, and that makes sense and all, especially with Draco recently making the soup. He does tend to drag Pansy out when he seems to be questioning his masculinity. I had just really thought that he had gotten beyond that. My heart is absolutely breaking for Harry. :(

fourscore @ June 10 2003, 00:13:46 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I don't think it's even a cruel thing, probably. Harry has had a long time to get used to this and Draco has probably only had a little while. That means Harry is likely a lot more intense and relatively adjusted to any of his own intensity that would come as an entire shock to Draco. Malfoy can't really be blamed for not having had as much time with this as Harry.

tabiji @ June 10 2003, 00:17:29 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Oh, I'm not blaming him at all. I'm just really sympathizing with Harry. It seems like every time they take one step forward, they then take two steps back.


*wibbles*

fourscore @ June 10 2003, 00:40:39 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

*weeps* I just wish I knew what was giong on!

dragynville @ June 10 2003, 00:26:11 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

Yes, if Draco was panicking and backpedaling on the whole 'being gay/in a gay relationship' issue again, it would naturally leave Harry feeling quite disappointed in him, and perhaps a little rejected even.

fourscore @ June 10 2003, 00:39:39 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I don't really think it would be disappointing. Actually I'd be glad to hear about it because it seems pretty unrealistic to expect him to become fully adjusted and healthily functioning over a few weeks.

sistermagpie @ June 10 2003, 07:14:55 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I don't think it would be backpedalling, actually. I think Draco is still being dragged very slowly towards a gay relationship kicking and screaming.:-)

theantimodel @ June 10 2003, 00:04:55 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

I think that a lot of the hints Draco seems to be dropping are more unintentional than anything else. It seems like he's become more accepting, but I don't think that just because he has gay friends now he would be completely okay with being gay himself.

To me, it seems like things are progressing with im and Harry, but it's gonna be slow, they still haven't (it seems) defined the terms of their friendship. It seems very on again off again, sometimes they snark together, sometimes they ignore each other and get into fights. So what I'm expecting is that things will progress really slowly with them, I think they need to solidify their friendship more before anything happens relationship-wise.

Then again, this is all just my opinion read through my bias filters, I could be completely wrong.

sistermagpie @ June 10 2003, 07:13:03 UTC Re: Puzzle pieces...

This is how I feel too--I think anything happening would be very very slowly. When I heard Draco freaked out about something I assumed it was some little thing that shoved the possibility of a physical relationship in his face. I just don't think he and Harry have one at all yet. I took Harry's horrified protests at Draco not being his boyfriend as the truth.

It sounds like Harry's patience is running thin now, or he's wondering he'll ever really get anywhere with Draco. He wants to visit Draco in the hospital but seems sort of like he just thinks that will make it worse. Also he seems kind of defiant about it, like is he the one who always has to do this? Eventually he starts to just agree with Ron (or wants to agree with him) that Draco's overdramatizing and isn't really that hurt.

As the openly gay person who's expressed an interest in Draco Harry's going to get "blamed" for anything that happens. If Draco feels an impulse towards Harry, he will probably blame it on Harry. If Harry touches Draco in any way Draco might freak out. Their time together, as much as Harry might like it, must also be very nerve-wracking for that reason. He's been honest with Draco but since Draco can't trust his own feelings I don't think he can trust Harry either. One reason he may have been happy to hang out with Seamus is that he is just a platonic guy aquaintance.

As frustrating as it is to think Harry isn't visiting Draco in the hospital I think it's probably a good thing. Harry's changing his behavior to provoke a change in Draco. For so long he's taken the tack of just accepting Draco's freak outs and being there but he seems to think that's becoming counter-productive. If Draco wants to see him he's going to have to say so. He doesn't seem to even want to go back to M.B.'s way where she throws them together. (I'm hoping there's more than that going on with M.B. though, than a kidnapping plan. If she wants to see him after dinner she could actually be considering talking to him and giving him some insight into Draco that Harry doesn't have that would help him understand Draco--she may feel Harry's earned that.)

Harry instead wants to talk to Sirius--an adult, sexually-experienced man--to get his opinion. The fact that Harry has really backed off Draco and vice versa says to me that something different happened here than the usual petty squabbling. Whenever the two have literally ignored each other it's been because something sexual came up: Draco ignored Harry after the party, they ignored each other after Harry's outing, Draco said he didn't want to talk to Potter after Ron's post about them going out. When Draco's just angry he posts publically (if passive-aggressively) about it.

Personally, I think Draco still has plenty of the same issues about being gay as he always did because remember his vicious outing post wasn't part of a pattern. That is, he's not obsessed in general with hating gay people so much as terrified of his own feelings. (He doesn't respect gay people either, of course, which is why he had no trouble attacking them when he was angry at Harry.)

Whatever Draco says, Harry really has been the most passionate relationship in his life up until this point. He's been obsessed with him for years. In that way I think Draco may actually be more vulnerable in the relationship. Harry has gradually realized he was attracted to Draco and is willing to explore it. Draco, I think, already has all sorts of feelings about Harry that are to big to handle. Harry seems to terrify him, thrill him, make him happy and make him miserable at the same time. This is why I can always still have sympathy for Draco in the situation, as much of a pain as he is. I think he has more at stake here than Harry does...but I wonder if Harry knows that.

shusu @ June 10 2003, 09:37:37 UTC On top of this

Firstly *claps* well-said ^_^

There is also the whole issue with his parentage. IIRC Narcissa has revealed that there are Muggles in her bloodline... all of a sudden Draco might be exactly what he most (professes to) hates. Draco's screened Veritaserum question to Lucius shows that he can and does think about issues in the wider wizarding world, but these issues are classed "private family matters"... being a Malfoy is an intrinsic part of Draco, whatever his parents may do or say. He will not rant about them in his journal as openly as Lucius notes them with cold calculation.

Will these "private matters" change once Draco sees what's happening? There's been spec in another thread that the recent DE attacks have caused Harry scar-pain. How does Draco react to that? Is he starting to realize how polarized his world and Harry's is? Is Harry? Perhaps there's a whole other X factor here that has nothing to do with their private soap opera.

Other things of note, Ron is brushed off (or reluctantly detached from) by Harry to see to M.B.'s urgent call. He signs his last comment "R.W." Millicent is also being rather long-suffering and concerned, more than I've ever seen her. (Strikes a special chord with me, because I play Millicent elsewhere.) It's interesting how she is in ... diametric opposition? ... to Seamus, seeing all and understanding the whys and hows, and trying to put (force) things together. Her urgency, PS's manic Quidditch preparations, Harry's edginess... I don't like it. It tastes very awkward and large.

I also wonder how much of Terry/Dean PS saw. I concede that he was unlikely to stay, but I think he saw the beginning of it, and perhaps he drew some parallels.

(I apologize for lack of links to NA itself.)

black_dog @ June 10 2003, 10:09:01 UTC Re: On top of this

Perhaps there's a whole other X factor here that has nothing to do with their private soap opera.

Yeah, this is a much-needed point, I think. I thought, as usual, about timelines -- Cho says there was a DE attack in Wales "this weekend," i.e. 6th/7th/8th. Harry did his Runespoor post the early morning of Friday the 6th -- if this was about his scar hurting, rather than Draco, the times aren't absolutely definitive, I don't think, but they're at least possible.

Lucius posted his "what a week" post on the 7th, so I suppose he could have been washing the blood off if the attack was Friday night. Would Draco have known about the attacks in advance? Lucius comments on how oddly fascinated Draco had been with his grandmother's body -- is he thinking Draco may be too squeamish for the DE's? Draco is incredibly manic the morning of the 7th, but that could be ordinary quidditch mental preparation.

It's all suggestive, and definitely worth looking closer for hints.

Anonymous @ June 10 2003, 11:13:00 UTC Re: On top of this

trying to put (force) things together. Her urgency, PS's manic Quidditch preparations, Harry's edginess...

It sounds like Millicent could be feeling directly responsibile for Draco's injury and is trying to make up for it in her own ways. I.E., by being opening hostile to Ravenclaw beaters and trying to pinpoint why both Draco and Harry are sulking. I think this is so because Millicent hardly ever overreacts for nothing and hardly gives a damn about people. :-?

Anonymous @ June 10 2003, 11:32:20 UTC

!!!

shusu @ June 10 2003, 11:37:29 UTC Re: On top of this

I think the open hostility to Ravenclaw is her usual thing... it doesn't have to be about "you broke his kneecaps", though it's probably a good deal of it. Not to make any odd comparisons with M.B.'s player (as they're far superior ^^) but for almost any version of Millicent, violence *is* the answer. Or at least, gunnysacks. You don't mess with her territory (Slytherin, not just Draco) without retaliation.

But yeah... she was the other Beater, and somewhere it was said that she was hovering around Draco. So that could be part of it.

trying to pinpoint why both Draco and Harry are sulking.

I think she knows. Her command to Harry, to meet her, was very direct. She sounded like there was a specific agenda and it had to be *now*.

Millicent hardly ever overreacts for nothing

I agree, though with an amendment. M.B. tends to be proactive. She won't overreact to a specific event (she brushed off the Malfoys' latest "drama") but it sounds as if she's going to do something about the overall situation. That make any sense? -_-

shusu @ June 10 2003, 11:39:37 UTC Re: On top of this

*laughs* Well, there I go. You've been starred.

Anonymous @ June 10 2003, 13:28:19 UTC Re: On top of this

A star! A star!

^_^ But I agree with you, she seems like the type to want to fix things that look clearly fixable to her so people will stop being so dramatic about things :D

sistermagpie @ June 10 2003, 12:13:59 UTC Re: On top of this

Awwww...Poor Millicent. I mean usually she knows how to take care of things and only causes physical pain when she means to. She must hate seeing Draco with his shattered kneecap with no way to fix anything. She's proven she knows Draco really well and can tell real distress from drama queen antics. I LOVE MILLICENT!!!

It does seem like Draco's in a deeper hole of sorts right now, though, doesn't it? I mean, that something is bothering him that she can't figure out because it's a new type thing. His continued silence seems important. He's been conscious now for a while and hasn't taken the opportunity to post how he won the game for Slytherin while playing two positions and almost dying in the process? He'll probably do it eventually but I'm surprised he didn't jump in right away. (Of course, he did have the proper instinct for it right after it happened when he asked Millicent to do it. At odd times during the day I still sometimes think, "Turn off the fire. Draco's Malfoy foot burns." He didn't want to talk to Crabbe either, though.

Regarding Harry, I think he must also be dealing with some Voldie-vibes here. When Lupin asked him why he was "off" in the lesson I assumed that's what he meant.

lunastarr @ June 10 2003, 13:25:18 UTC Re: On top of this

She's proven she knows Draco really well and can tell real distress from drama queen antics.

When drama queens are quiet you know it is something serious LOL!

lunastarr @ June 10 2003, 15:00:00 UTC Re: On top of this

i've been wondering about Draco saying he was going during the Boot/Dean exchange because he really did seem to go because he stopped commenting and all. Did he have to go somewhere? Maybe to meet Harry? ;)

shusu @ June 10 2003, 15:24:19 UTC Re: On top of this

I think Draco was squicked by Boot/Dean...? (Who wouldn't, IRL... the PDA, yeesh.)

I must reread it.

lunastarr @ June 10 2003, 15:40:59 UTC Re: On top of this

Well he stopped talking like 10 mins before they started doing any of that so I really don't think he saw it.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 23:13:45 UTC

And now, even though Ron has urged him to go see Draco, Harry is making excuses not to. :(

theantimodel @ June 9 2003, 23:17:35 UTC

This Just In...

Ron tells Harry to go visit if he's so worried.

The conversation then picks up here.

Followed by a reply to Millicent here. Looks like Harry's got his snark back. Looks like Millicent has been missing this since Draco is totally nutters right now. And damn Harry for not caving in and visiting, he even has Ron's approval, that's gotta mean something.

dragynville @ June 9 2003, 23:26:22 UTC

Looks like M.B. is definitely taking things into her own hands. Another kidnapping in the offing perhaps? (Thank goodness. Here's hoping she knocks some sense into their heads. Again.)